From: Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org>
To: Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com>
Cc: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 20:52:11 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <5E27076F-0D98-4EE1-9484-618FE58B941C@iitbombay.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAEoi9W4NXd-yajWk9bcb1X9eK_Ws17TBJOpDE6M-Qf+uLQ2v6A@mail.gmail.com>
> On Jul 3, 2021, at 6:20 AM, Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Systemd is both good and bad.
Independent of systemd, the idea of regularizing service management is quite useful. A single function in a way, & fits the Unix Philosophy [which is really about factoring out common components and making them easily reusable. The fact that the shell allows that sort of composition with minimal syntax is, to me, one of its greatest contributions]
Similarly there are other such new functions where this philosophy can be applied.
> We aren't teaching, yes, but moreover they don't want to learn because the problems they're trying to solve are different. We need to accept and internalize that and think hard about how the tools we use can be brought to bear on the problems that are relevant _now_, not 30 years ago.
>
> It does beg the question: is a Unix-style kernel still the appropriate foundation for this style of computing? Why are we still using this system: is it because of its intrinsic power and versatility, or because of inertia? Systemd, containers, etc, all suggest that our models are inadequate.
Containers, and many other tech. solutions have evolved in response to changing needs. The question that interests me is can we apply the Unix philosophy in this changing environment and if so how.
One thing I like about Apple is their continuous focus & s/w evolution on helping the end-user (we may disagree on specific changes but I bet many people on this list are using Apple devices as their "terminal"). It is a real joy to use some of these programs. And yet it is a real shame to not see open standards for such things.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-07-05 3:52 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 109+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-07-02 21:24 Nelson H. F. Beebe
2021-07-02 21:36 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-02 21:56 ` Henry Bent
2021-07-02 23:12 ` Steve Nickolas
2021-07-02 23:49 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-03 13:34 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-03 13:56 ` Richard Salz
2021-07-03 12:04 ` Thomas Paulsen
2021-07-03 13:20 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-03 17:37 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-03 17:57 ` Warner Losh
2021-07-03 18:10 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-03 20:02 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-04 0:47 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-04 4:36 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-04 14:56 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-04 16:07 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-04 20:10 ` David Barto
2021-07-05 0:25 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 1:23 ` John Cowan
2021-07-04 12:48 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-05 7:14 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-05 16:26 ` John Cowan
2021-07-06 23:17 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-06 23:47 ` Steve Nickolas
2021-07-06 23:49 ` Warner Losh
2021-07-06 23:48 ` John Cowan
2021-07-07 0:46 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-07 0:58 ` George Michaelson
2021-07-07 2:48 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-07 18:32 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-07 20:50 ` Michael Kjörling
2021-07-08 6:46 ` [TUHS] Overgrown ffox (was: The Unix shell: a 50-year view) Tomasz Rola
2021-07-08 13:59 ` Derek Fawcus
2021-07-08 19:25 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-08 19:37 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-08 20:40 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-08 22:23 ` Kevin Bowling
2021-07-08 21:47 ` [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-09 20:14 ` Michael Kjörling
2021-07-07 13:54 ` Tony Finch
2021-07-06 16:05 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-09 22:19 ` Tomasz Rola
2021-07-04 20:10 ` Tony Finch
2021-07-05 3:59 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-05 15:08 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-05 3:52 ` Bakul Shah [this message]
2021-07-04 18:17 ` John Dow via TUHS
2021-07-04 19:46 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 1:33 ` Noel Hunt
2021-07-05 2:38 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 2:51 ` Warner Losh
2021-07-05 3:03 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 3:01 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 5:22 ` Noel Hunt
2021-07-06 5:10 ` Nevin Liber
2021-07-06 13:30 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-06 16:23 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-07-07 1:57 ` Dan Cross
2021-07-07 2:52 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-07 5:19 ` Andrew Warkentin
2021-07-07 18:28 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-07-10 11:51 ` [TUHS] " Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-10 13:54 ` Henry Bent
2021-07-10 14:12 ` Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-10 16:57 ` [TUHS] Death by bug [formerly The Unix shell: a 50-year view] Jon Steinhart
2021-07-11 8:53 ` [TUHS] Death by bug Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-11 9:04 ` arnold
2021-07-12 1:42 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2021-07-12 2:57 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-07-12 6:39 ` arnold
2021-07-12 9:56 ` Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-11 16:10 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-07-12 10:37 ` Ralph Corderoy
2021-07-06 13:40 ` [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view John Cowan
2021-07-06 14:12 ` Chet Ramey
2021-07-07 0:53 ` Nevin Liber
2021-07-07 13:08 ` Chet Ramey
2021-07-07 15:15 ` Richard Salz
2021-07-03 0:09 ` Andrew Warkentin
2021-07-03 15:49 ` Andy Kosela
2021-07-04 23:24 ` [TUHS] Is C obsolete? (was Re: [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view) Derek Fawcus
2021-07-04 23:50 ` Nemo Nusquam
2021-07-05 0:15 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-05 0:21 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 2:36 ` John Cowan
2021-07-05 2:59 ` Richard Salz
2021-07-05 3:47 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 4:02 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-05 13:45 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-05 20:15 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-05 21:05 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 21:29 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 22:22 ` Brantley Coile
2021-07-06 4:35 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-06 4:44 ` Warner Losh
2021-07-06 5:58 ` Rico Pajarola
2021-07-06 13:05 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-05 12:11 ` Thomas Paulsen
2021-07-05 4:08 ` Dan Stromberg
2021-07-05 4:23 ` George Michaelson
2021-07-05 14:43 ` Larry McVoy
2021-07-05 15:17 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-05 15:36 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2021-07-05 15:53 ` Mike Markowski
2021-07-05 16:39 ` Warner Losh
2021-07-05 19:02 ` Clem Cole
2021-07-02 22:27 ` [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view Chet Ramey
2021-07-02 23:09 ` Steve Nickolas
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