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[107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 33sm1951836ots.19.2021.07.04.20.52.12 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 04 Jul 2021 20:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 20:52:11 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5E27076F-0D98-4EE1-9484-618FE58B941C@iitbombay.org> References: <20210702213648.GW817@mcvoy.com> <396911b232bae5938068a14fe0f7181e@firemail.de> To: Dan Cross X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Subject: Re: [TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" > On Jul 3, 2021, at 6:20 AM, Dan Cross wrote: >=20 > Systemd is both good and bad. Independent of systemd, the idea of regularizing service management is = quite useful. A single function in a way, & fits the Unix Philosophy = [which is really about factoring out common components and making them = easily reusable. The fact that the shell allows that sort of composition = with minimal syntax is, to me, one of its greatest contributions] Similarly there are other such new functions where this philosophy can = be applied. > We aren't teaching, yes, but moreover they don't want to learn because = the problems they're trying to solve are different. We need to accept = and internalize that and think hard about how the tools we use can be = brought to bear on the problems that are relevant _now_, not 30 years = ago. >=20 > It does beg the question: is a Unix-style kernel still the appropriate = foundation for this style of computing? Why are we still using this = system: is it because of its intrinsic power and versatility, or because = of inertia? Systemd, containers, etc, all suggest that our models are = inadequate. Containers, and many other tech. solutions have evolved in response to = changing needs. The question that interests me is can we apply the Unix = philosophy in this changing environment and if so how. One thing I like about Apple is their continuous focus & s/w evolution = on helping the end-user (we may disagree on specific changes but I bet = many people on this list are using Apple devices as their "terminal"). = It is a real joy to use some of these programs. And yet it is a real = shame to not see open standards for such things.=20