From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 14946 invoked from network); 20 Sep 2023 01:30:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Sep 2023 01:30:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11D9B410E3; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:30:53 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1695173453; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=EbWsv6iudveBTNL9OfgZgIfzssCG8FtkVWISu+qqtNA=; b=zjFGh9bJsmr3KkTCM2Qz8uD2pDDZ1gkFHfd08qsTPDcmd2Gnjv6pvwOvWcmKC8uF1codrr vjH67HqompNJssNqAAiOiXdWoUACP97oV5rMeN22Ygmm82ETlZ4PC2f2+xA9dd9HE1yhFK mH1oGdnTjeMh3DG1hWZWBXeHjCWBZgY= Received: from mail-40132.protonmail.ch (mail-40132.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.132]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00B6D40C0B for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2023 11:30:47 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1695173446; x=1695432646; bh=EbWsv6iudveBTNL9OfgZgIfzssCG8FtkVWISu+qqtNA=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=ogdLKiysfaA+6faysPUtgSNFZ8MBHCq5DfYAwR2AA2nrmfZ9v6CTeHS4iqAr8inK+ MGIk6ihx8me5RiZUppBXXrRlucyKmislfk6nWNzEcxiHlNIvHGIuiscnuy+CguRly7 9I7FInMjXUiTnLkCuAqMA8lNHJ3WJXCpbBwqr0+V3Otm1dF3ZuNwO7pIzwVI6b1Jyd UoHdG7pn7RIiojSdIPtE+3ORfouzop29D0WHP4Xrt3BIA0E3pzWmgBc1xt3BVI/nBt b1RgteWIjl5sefQf+z7Oej4GG5WyJ1xF4jFG3Wb84w+kJx4wjJZDfyQiGhoAGC4EK6 BQfy9yMadFGIA== Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2023 01:30:37 +0000 To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Message-ID: <5RzxjSGC9j4riL9Kr7cVp4UwTY2SVNxyNxQNG5RCZLh874BzbGP9ZS5U7IErArwrvMm6Ii40GhHK7n009tpnToX78D-3MQSt9xx2XqDnKuc=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4CmySC-mFud1dlrqfAq1itmNKoTWVi8cTuAqCvtUengKvv5CWEoYCFf6-I18dwf5BVSZWAxC-B6BP6Y1e0Gi_mlga344b5cxu5TlUCLXHeg=@protonmail.com> <20230919233925.GB28844@mcvoy.com> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: XW3IVE36WXVTIWJLVUYVNJS7A2H3PYBK X-Message-ID-Hash: XW3IVE36WXVTIWJLVUYVNJS7A2H3PYBK X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Project Idea: The UNIX Programmer's Manual: Heritage Edition List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco > > I'd start with groff. > >=20 > > So I'm a little off topic but if people wanted to work on that, I'd be > > up for that project. It's not as big as what you are saying but it's > > pretty big, I think we just start with something, see if we can get > > debian/ubuntu to pick it up, lather, rinse repeat. In fact if we > > just get the groff project to pick up our stuff, all the distros will > > get that eventually. > >=20 > > -- > > --- > > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat >=20 >=20 > That's an excellent point, the beauty of UNIX being a granular system is = that such an effort wouldn't need to be a "start at page 1 and finish at pa= ge whatever", but could be done piecemeal. Groff would also be a great cand= idate due to the preponderance of supporting secondary papers, like the NRO= FF/TROFF manual, different macro definitions, etc. That does then get into = the prospect of the secondary papers too, likewise excellent references to = this day on a number of subjects that I personally would love to have moder= nized versions of. >=20 > Well if anyone catches wind of such a project kicking off in some way els= ewhere, know that I'm certainly interested in what I can contribute. What m= y work towards this eventual goal will probably continue to look like for n= ow though is just doing my diff analysis of manual versions, as one of my p= rinciple goals there was to identify the apparent last common ancestor of R= esearch, PWB, and BSD lineages, at least as far as documentation is concern= ed. Common sense would just say research V7 but there are little tidbits he= re and there between V6 and V7 that don't show up in other places, just tin= y little nuanced things for the most part. I haven't done this part of the = analysis at all but a causal glance at a 32V manual diffed with a V7 manual= reveals some changes that don't appear to be related to the portability wo= rk. But I'm not going to comment on that further without analysis to back i= t up, just some anecdotal observations at present. >=20 > > Why (and when) did GNU drop the HISTORY section from its man pages? > >=20 > > Adam >=20 >=20 > Did GNU ever have a HISTORY section? I just plucked a couple books off th= e shelf, I don't see HISTORY in the V10, 4.4BSD, or SVR4 books, so probably= a later invention in the BSD line that didn't get picked up by other UNIX-= likes? Looking at a few illumos manpages, they also don't appear to have a = HISTORY section. They appear to be there on macOS, probably as a result of = the FreeBSD origins of macOS user space. That said, I also appreciate the H= ISTORY section, it's tipped me off to things to study that I didn't know on= a few occasions. >=20 > - Matt G. Sorry for the double bump, don't want to lie, just found a few pages in the= 4.4BSD manual with a HISTORY section. Checked the same pages in V10, SVR4= , and 4.3BSD, no dice, so maybe 4.4BSD at the earliest? Of course I could = just grep this but where's the fun in that (and I'm not at a computer I hav= e a UNIX tree on right now...) - Matt G.