From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, NICE_REPLY_A,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 9731 invoked from network); 10 May 2022 18:07:34 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 10 May 2022 18:07:34 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 53E689BDA4; Wed, 11 May 2022 04:07:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF089BA52; Wed, 11 May 2022 04:05:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1894E9BA52; Wed, 11 May 2022 04:05:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail.kaybuena.com (rrcs-71-42-153-194.sw.biz.rr.com [71.42.153.194]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 200AC9BA39 for ; Wed, 11 May 2022 04:05:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: from [192.168.147.6] (4dot2 [71.42.153.195]) by mail.kaybuena.com (8.17.1/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 24AI5hi22179866 for ; Tue, 10 May 2022 13:05:43 -0500 Message-ID: <5ebf4284-878f-ab85-6d6f-475add897315@technologists.com> Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 13:05:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.0 Content-Language: en-US To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <57977CE7-DDCC-4861-BBD2-843B9B9F51C2@ronnatalie.com> <1505232b-86bd-0d65-52c7-c8d19bd0663c@mhorton.net> From: "Charles H Sauer (he/him)" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (mail.kaybuena.com [71.42.153.194]); Tue, 10 May 2022 13:05:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [TUHS] First Unix-like OSes not derived from AT&T code? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" I mostly defer to Heinz and Clem regarding PC/IX. It is hard to imagine the IBM people in Boca Raton allowing the Chaplin imagery to be used with a secondary product like PC/IX, but I don't remember the packaging. PC/IX was my first hands on experience with Unix. PC/IX was used extensively in the AIX development group while ROMP hardware was scarce. Before I got my own RT/PC, I used PC/IX primarily, until I got a PC/AT and started using some instance of Xenix that supported the 286 MMU. Charlie On 5/10/2022 12:18 PM, Clem Cole wrote: > Sorry, I  hit return too soon. > > Mary Ann -  I think  PC/IX is what you were thinking.  FWIW: it was one > of the reasons why Andy developed Minix.  He said at the time it was > insufficient and if he was going to have a pure V7 port for the base > 8088-based PC/XT (not 286s-based PC/AT) then he wanted something he > could teach with.   IIRC the early PC/IX (and I know for certain Minux > did not) did not even recognize the MMU for the 286 of the AT (much less > the later 386), but it did have a driver for the AT disk controller > (which was/is a different controller than the XT). > > As Warner says, PC/XT was based on the new System III license we had > just all negotiated earlier that winter.   Microsoft had already started > shipping Xenix on the x86/68000 and I think a z8000 using the V7 > license, but I don't think IBM relicensed it.   HP was shipping HP-UX > for the original 9000 on the same, and Tek was also shipping it firsts > emulator system on the V7 license.    DEC had the original v7m which > begat Ultrix, although I don't remember if DEC ever shipped binaries on > the original V7 license.  Charlie can correct me, but I don't think IBM > ever shipped binaries on the V7 license either. > > [The original V7 redistribution license had terms that makers of $100K+ > systems did not mind too much, but was difficult for what would > eventually be called PCs and workstations at the <$10K (much less < $1K) > price to swallow. > > FWIW: Years later, Linus famously got his 386 box from his parents for > Christmas, got a copy of Andy's Minux (for a PC/XT), started writing his > terminal program, and was annoyed that it did not use the VM/larger > address space of hardware. > ᐧ > ᐧ > > On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 12:59 PM Clem Cole > wrote: > > PC/IX > ᐧ > > On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 11:32 AM Mary Ann Horton > wrote: > > I recall having an IBM PC port of UNIX in the 1980s on floppy > with a black 6x9 box and Charlie Chaplin with the red rose. I > thought it was called AIX. I installed it, and recall it being > very different from UNIX for sysadmin (different logs, different > admin commands) but similar for users. I thought it was based on > System III or thereabouts. > > I can't find any evidence of this. It appears AIX 1.0 wasn't for > the original PC. > > Does anyone else recall this distribution and what it was called > or based on? > > Thanks, > >     Mary Ann > > On 5/1/22 19:08, Kenneth Goodwin wrote: >> My understanding of AIX was that IBM licensed the System V >> source code and then proceeded to "make it their own". I had a >> days experience with it on a POS cash register fixing a client >> issue. The shocker - they changed all the error messages to >> error codes with a look at the manual requirement. >> >> Not sure if this is true in its entirety or not. >> But that's what I recall, thst it was not a from scratch >> rewrite but more along the lines of other vendor UNIX clones >> of the time. >> License the source, change the name and then beat it to death. >> >> On Sun, May 1, 2022, 2:08 PM ron minnich > > wrote: >> >> in terms of rewrites from manuals, while it was not the >> first, as I >> understand it, AIX was an example of "read the manual, >> write the >> code." >> >> Unlike Coherent, it had lots of cases of things not done >> quite right. >> One standout in my mind was mkdir -p, which would return >> an error if >> the full path existed. oops. >> >> But it was pointed out to me that Condor had all kinds of >> code to >> handle AIX being different from just about everything else. >> >> -- voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer@technologists.com fax: +1.512.346.5240 Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ Facebook/Google/Twitter: CharlesHSauer