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[72.197.202.72]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p1sm6082253pff.74.2019.06.11.11.05.18 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:05:18 -0700 (PDT) To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <7247.1560233525@cesium.clock.org> <169b01d5204f$f633c1f0$e29b45d0$@ronnatalie.com> <7wzhmoqc4z.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> From: Mary Ann Horton Gmail Message-ID: <6021078c-f1a3-8f09-8c5e-5bb87e1edbbe@mhorton.net> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:05:17 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9E11E3CA449B8CA302F38839" Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [TUHS] Question about finding curses to build on v7 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9E11E3CA449B8CA302F38839 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Most of what was produced internally to AT&T had to stay there, because lawyers. I was at Bell Labs by the time I changed termcap/termlib and the Arnold curses into "The New Curses and Terminfo", which I presented at Usenix in Boston 1982.  Terminfo was "compiled", and Curses had a new algorithm to use insert/delete line/char to avoid having to redraw the whole screen. I wasn't allowed to distribute it outside AT&T. Pavel Curtis of CMU stepped up and, at my encouragement, volunteered to rewrite it to the same spec. I worked with him on the spec and the algorithm, and his version was available to open source. If you were at the Boston conference, you may recall my presentation. My Director, Tony Cuilwik, was in the audience, and this was my first public talk since joining Bell Labs, so I was nervous. As I was stepping to the podium to begin my talk, Armando Stettner interrupted to present me with the "Flying Rubber Chicken Award". Someone offstage threw him a rubber chicken. The chicken was quickly vanished and replaced with the real award, "The Term Cap". Armando explained that the hat was an Bell System hard hat, donated by Ken Thompson himself. Scotched to the hat were "hacker eyes" (googly eye glasses) and a Steve Martin style arrow-through-the-head "for the term info to go in and come out". He left me there, holding the award, as I had to reboot my brain to begin my talk. I still have that award. It graced my workplace for many years. When I worked at Bank One in Columbus, I put it on a styrofoam head on top of my cube. A coworker had contributed a yellow cheerleader pompom which gave her hair. When Chase bought Bank One, there were Chase big shots coming through our building, I was told to take it down because it didn't look "professional". I was offended - "that's an award!" It stayed down for several months, and people complained because, in that cube farm of identical rows of cubes, "people used that for navigation". I made a little plaque explaining the award and placed it next to the restored Term Cap on my cube. The award sat on my cube at SDG&E for 11 years without incident, and now that I'm retired I proudly display it on my piano at home.     Mary Ann On 6/11/19 10:26 AM, Clem Cole wrote: > Interesting and that sounds quite plausible.   CCA sold it at one > point. Masscomp (because Steve was working for us) got a license and a > redistribution license.   IIRC: we could redistribute the binary for > free as long as CCA got Steve's changes back. > > Steve definitely did the terminfo/lib work for CCA Emacs at Masscomp, > as I had pointed out that AT&T was moving to terminfo but was locking > it up inside of the System V (AT&T 'consider it standard' stuff - much > to a number of their own people telling them not too).   Pavel ?? > Curtis I think ?? - I've forgotten his last name -  had written a new > uncontaminated version at Cornell that was a functional replacement > and that could read the AT&T ASCII database and compile them > properly.   (I don't remember if Pavel's version could take the AT&T > binary versions).  I had obtained Pavel's version and we were shipping > that as our terminfo/lib implementation on the Masscomp boxes and were > switching our code to use it, as we had not yet signed a System V > license and were shipping on a System III based one.   Steve started > to include Pavel's library in the CCA version, which he got from me. > ᐧ > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:12 PM Lars Brinkhoff > wrote: > > Clem Cole wrote: > > 1.) Zimmerman EMACS (a.k.a. CCA EMACS) ran on the PDP-11 originally > > when Steve wrote it at MIT. > > I have this on the origin of Montgomery and Zimmerman Emacs: > >   "[Montgomery's] emacs implementation was begun in 1979, after having >   left MIT.  I made it freely available to people INSIDE of Bell Labs, >   and it was widely used. It was never officially "released" from Bell >   Labs." > >   "Unfortunately, several copies did get out during that time, mainly >   due to people who left Bell Labs to return to school or gave > copies to >   friends.  When Zimmerman modified one of those copies as the > original >   basis for CCA emacs, AT&T and CCA had a prolonged debate over it. >   Eventually the matter was resolved when Zimmerman replaced the > last of >   my code" > > https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/emacs-history/blob/sources/Usenet/net.emacs/btl-emacs-2.txt > --------------9E11E3CA449B8CA302F38839 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Most of what was produced internally to AT&T had to stay there, because lawyers.

I was at Bell Labs by the time I changed termcap/termlib and the Arnold curses into "The New Curses and Terminfo", which I presented at Usenix in Boston 1982.  Terminfo was "compiled", and Curses had a new algorithm to use insert/delete line/char to avoid having to redraw the whole screen.

I wasn't allowed to distribute it outside AT&T. Pavel Curtis of CMU stepped up and, at my encouragement, volunteered to rewrite it to the same spec. I worked with him on the spec and the algorithm, and his version was available to open source.

If you were at the Boston conference, you may recall my presentation. My Director, Tony Cuilwik, was in the audience, and this was my first public talk since joining Bell Labs, so I was nervous. As I was stepping to the podium to begin my talk, Armando Stettner interrupted to present me with the "Flying Rubber Chicken Award". Someone offstage threw him a rubber chicken. The chicken was quickly vanished and replaced with the real award, "The Term Cap". Armando explained that the hat was an Bell System hard hat, donated by Ken Thompson himself. Scotched to the hat were "hacker eyes" (googly eye glasses) and a Steve Martin style arrow-through-the-head "for the term info to go in and come out". He left me there, holding the award, as I had to reboot my brain to begin my talk.

I still have that award. It graced my workplace for many years. When I worked at Bank One in Columbus, I put it on a styrofoam head on top of my cube. A coworker had contributed a yellow cheerleader pompom which gave her hair. When Chase bought Bank One, there were Chase big shots coming through our building, I was told to take it down because it didn't look "professional". I was offended - "that's an award!" It stayed down for several months, and people complained because, in that cube farm of identical rows of cubes, "people used that for navigation". I made a little plaque explaining the award and placed it next to the restored Term Cap on my cube. The award sat on my cube at SDG&E for 11 years without incident, and now that I'm retired I proudly display it on my piano at home.

    Mary Ann

On 6/11/19 10:26 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
Interesting and that sounds quite plausible.   CCA sold it at one point.  Masscomp (because Steve was working for us) got a license and a redistribution license.   IIRC: we could redistribute the binary for free as long as CCA got Steve's changes back.

Steve definitely did the terminfo/lib work for CCA Emacs at Masscomp, as I had pointed out that AT&T was moving to terminfo but was locking it up inside of the System V (AT&T 'consider it standard' stuff - much to a number of their own people telling them not too).   Pavel ?? Curtis I think ?? - I've forgotten his last name -  had written a new uncontaminated version at Cornell that was a functional replacement and that could read the AT&T ASCII database and compile them properly.   (I don't remember if Pavel's version could take the AT&T binary versions).  I had obtained Pavel's version and we were shipping that as our terminfo/lib implementation on the Masscomp boxes and were switching our code to use it, as we had not yet signed a System V license and were shipping on a System III based one.    Steve started to include Pavel's library in the CCA version, which he got from me. 

On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:12 PM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
Clem Cole wrote:
> 1.) Zimmerman EMACS (a.k.a. CCA EMACS) ran on the PDP-11 originally
> when Steve wrote it at MIT.

I have this on the origin of Montgomery and Zimmerman Emacs:

  "[Montgomery's] emacs implementation was begun in 1979, after having
  left MIT.  I made it freely available to people INSIDE of Bell Labs,
  and it was widely used. It was never officially "released" from Bell
  Labs."

  "Unfortunately, several copies did get out during that time, mainly
  due to people who left Bell Labs to return to school or gave copies to
  friends.  When Zimmerman modified one of those copies as the original
  basis for CCA emacs, AT&T and CCA had a prolonged debate over it.
  Eventually the matter was resolved when Zimmerman replaced the last of
  my code"

https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/emacs-history/blob/sources/Usenet/net.emacs/btl-emacs-2.txt
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