From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 39321071 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:13:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5B6C79BF80; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:13:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2EF79BD9B; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:13:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BB6769BD9B; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:13:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: from post.cogs.com (post.cogs.com [72.43.6.86]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08D789BD84 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:13:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by post.cogs.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6191021BF2E9; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:13:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cogs.com Received: from post.cogs.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (post.cogs.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id GKDCIzsa9IiG; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rrcs-108-176-86-106.nys.biz.rr.com (rrcs-108-176-86-106.nys.biz.rr.com [108.176.86.106]) by post.cogs.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A1611021BF2E2; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3560.7\)) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:13:05 -0400 References: <20190625000630.GA7655@mcvoy.com> <20190625003120.GA28608@mit.edu> <20190625004523.GB7655@mcvoy.com> <20190626024503.GA43970@wopr> <20190626025646.GR925@mcvoy.com> <20190626151143.GC3116@mit.edu> <20190626174431.GT925@mcvoy.com> <34DB62C2-7D8C-468B-99E1-CA035C9141A2@eschatologist.net> <04827B96-5B5E-473E-A95F-67C4292B69D1@cogs.com> <20190626202125.GA1206@mcvoy.com> <40c8b56dc61f5026@orthanc.ca> <8249B608-606A-4A32-8D56-D78F16BC217B@cogs.com> <201906271059.x5RAxZZ4020844@freefriends.org> To: arnold@skeeve.com, Tuhs In-Reply-To: <201906271059.x5RAxZZ4020844@freefriends.org> Message-Id: <648F2E41-08C4-4A76-9AD0-D69F851EF0D7@cogs.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3560.7) Subject: Re: [TUHS] CMU Mach sources? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Ben Greenfield via TUHS Reply-To: Ben Greenfield Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" > On Jun 27, 2019, at 6:59 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >=20 > Larry McVoy writes: >>>> OK, I'll bite. Go read the source in the FreeBSD tree, which has = been=20 >>>> reduced in size by 60% according to someone on the team. Then come >>>> back and draw me a picture of what it does. >=20 > On Jun 27, 2019, at 12:01 AM, Lyndon Nerenberg = wrote: >>> Larry, it seems to me your argument is the Mach code should never >>> have been incorporated into BSD in the first place. That's fine, >>> but it's not the Mach developers fault that happened, so maybe you >>> should lay off them for not writing their research software to a >>> production shop standard they were never a part of? >=20 > Ben Greenfield via TUHS wrote: >> My understanding is that the BSD layer was a requirement from DARPA. >> DARPA wanted a =E2=80=9Cnormal=E2=80=9D interface to the kernel and = BSD was that interface. >=20 > Yes, Mach had to provide a BSD layer on top, but that's not the source > of Larry's gripes. >=20 > It's the other way around. 4.4 BSD pulled the VM code out of Mach and > into BSD to provide mmap and some level of portability off the Vax. = From > there the Mach code got into FreeBSD. That's what Larry is = complaining > about and what Lyndon is saying isn't fair to the Mach guys. Thank you for this clarification, so this conversation has been going on = since the 80=E2=80=99s and gets ignited from time to time. Thank you, Ben >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Arnold