From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 75bc601c for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 04:30:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2E3489BCA1; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:30:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BFE89BC42; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:30:11 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=outdoorexpressionslimited.onmicrosoft.com header.i=@outdoorexpressionslimited.onmicrosoft.com header.b="naKod5iY"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C1B279BC42; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:30:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: from APC01-PU1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr1320079.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.132.79]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DADBA9BC35 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 14:30:07 +1000 (AEST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=TPTJQzsyDG2SL0BNFToNsf9TUUwFjifSPuE+nXRccXjSxC8RqPyar1Pmv8dDxsS0P7sYg00dCVo8c3SrCUBQfI4mbs4kh3xJYke5EccqwPX4CW2JWoTFvFLmvvD5KTQWeAHma2kEfx/S/ZQQwdRaz0c3stmLdJdXOZfDyAhZLvU2qeZL49TnssoVafYrXZqAiyW+ootJz6xoAuaj69eAlYAO0J/KGVYFXFVXTfBbviazbWYTMrQwzslPED6/L0rG7ZXPRVMiblNLlOlnwhxAKXrx5y8KGsJ3e0oI4vKmB3PLZq9Fko9wwvk2yU+XhUaMDlpy6o3BGYU5I6QLN/3aAA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=rEqYtav0K3Qr6v1AOauE2RTzVOPfWsG7RELKlNDU5Ls=; b=FuVXtuIbhYwx+pvROKulupfWPKYf0otGCueBf14TsHjJZVXSusHt1eDCA7O7ol5GesZ6Xg9c5eQapJt7839dz/lOJrr11/6RVmv8rzyzWArv2efnpu8VlXUJAHFDhX2x9/COregCPemWyp4bd1IoDbLmUoL84b6G7L23Qbp8IrNTQj/ElyYXJquoZmwAutoD3AWqQxrikagbM4DnRryS7wT2wtcfpEqkEQXjDgyocepOFZFPUQpBVVRcL74ao07WH4zxuUpDnsvf1EL4SQYdjhmPTShdpxjku9L/ZZO5PVy+0Im9oGaw8HfW52rlQFrVyTnkZ5frzPFLQ5BogRRIMQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=fail (sender ip is 59.148.14.54) smtp.rcpttodomain=minnie.tuhs.org smtp.mailfrom=superglobalmegacorp.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=superglobalmegacorp.com; dkim=none (message not signed); arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outdoorexpressionslimited.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-outdoorexpressionslimited-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=rEqYtav0K3Qr6v1AOauE2RTzVOPfWsG7RELKlNDU5Ls=; b=naKod5iYfXEOFRF7gQlot+jVWYQT9aSHWZYdyu5qoXfPhXaXosSpkJSIcBOJHrw2pyYQipb9P6ujUaj8zc4sINkgWFOS2Ozh08XwtsyYl+DNGkQQ+qvSi7JMIpsjGn+IS38ujP6hWl3qP4D0tAh+EeWwkaLcR4Z3daFMeGncME8= Received: from SG2PR02CA0015.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:3:17::27) by SG2PR02MB3516.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:4:4a::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2199.21; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 04:30:04 +0000 Received: from PU1APC01FT003.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:f400:7ebd::202) by SG2PR02CA0015.outlook.office365.com (2603:1096:3:17::27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.20.2199.14 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 04:30:04 +0000 Authentication-Results: spf=fail (sender IP is 59.148.14.54) smtp.mailfrom=superglobalmegacorp.com; minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;minnie.tuhs.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=superglobalmegacorp.com; Received-SPF: Fail (protection.outlook.com: domain of superglobalmegacorp.com does not designate 59.148.14.54 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=59.148.14.54; helo=exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local; Received: from exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local (59.148.14.54) by PU1APC01FT003.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.252.95) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.20.2220.16 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 04:30:03 +0000 Received: from [IPv6:::ffff:192.168.1.10] (192.168.1.10 [192.168.1.10]) by exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id NPGTFH8Z; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 12:30:02 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: TUHS main list From: Jason Stevens Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2019 12:30:02 +0800 Importance: normal X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <13c5c36e-c84d-e020-d09e-51c8c502dc6d@kilonet.net> References: <13c5c36e-c84d-e020-d09e-51c8c502dc6d@kilonet.net> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_37E6C4CB-7558-40DF-8827-9840AEF56741_" Message-ID: <64d347fc-23cf-45db-8153-fc80e312c0c6@PU1APC01FT003.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com> X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:59.148.14.54; IPV:CAL; CTRY:HK; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(396003)(346002)(376002)(39830400003)(136003)(2980300002)(1110001)(339900001)(199004)(189003)(31696002)(71190400001)(356004)(8936002)(6246003)(81156014)(81166006)(26005)(26826003)(86362001)(74316002)(966005)(508600001)(8676002)(53546011)(16586007)(33964004)(81686011)(76176011)(316002)(36906005)(186003)(105606002)(336012)(229853002)(54896002)(236005)(9686003)(6306002)(2906002)(446003)(486006)(11346002)(126002)(476003)(6916009)(76130400001)(70586007)(70206006)(5660300002)(31686004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:SG2PR02MB3516; H:exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local; FPR:; SPF:Fail; LANG:en; PTR:059148014054.ctinets.com; A:1; MX:1; X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 40e64368-1219-4bd3-9fd8-08d72b70656b X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(7021145)(8989299)(4534185)(7022145)(4603075)(4627221)(201702281549075)(8990200)(7048125)(7024125)(7027125)(7023125)(5600166)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328); SRVR:SG2PR02MB3516; X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SG2PR02MB3516: X-MS-Exchange-PUrlCount: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:8882; X-Forefront-PRVS: 014304E855 X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 5T0/XdBLRxXBB99OuSh3LJU6xMF65R9/CaHh6/EWvVyPAUl0hXFfta+NSgexBmUZqIZc+uis8x42b6VMPwNG7zY8+fyA9lBKRcc3eaAJ86si7ZLK1cLAIcxzyYLYEtKOyJScorpahBOrfg8bkESfQ3L1oPyg8J1AF5M9hnOmCBwtfTxrk910LDV3P2aK6qm/3A5NRtHt1fdi43Xm9bGJpjuBZEIpYhPezAB4jZk6vlBU1VhQ8TUVeWlj9k5L44ZTZrXH2HL1kmd++KvBfbv2bIaqTkF9Dd+tqoysTd2EATeBeVmu0C/sPkpZ4yJvzmv4lZjWiaA4wWSwvLbmYjMU0PzUfnAtQB+SFz+NlYyYw90DUfjrTg4k5SWRcaNcg9GOWHG/rVFZdrR7m4BxZA03Skxm4TxZHBEe3pF3iPNBiUU= X-OriginatorOrg: superglobalmegacorp.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2019 04:30:03.2156 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 40e64368-1219-4bd3-9fd8-08d72b70656b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 870ed452-0577-4b7b-90ed-9cac080031b9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=870ed452-0577-4b7b-90ed-9cac080031b9; Ip=[59.148.14.54]; Helo=[exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SG2PR02MB3516 Subject: Re: [TUHS] If not Linux, then what? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --_37E6C4CB-7558-40DF-8827-9840AEF56741_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Maybe that plan B of GNU using the 4.4BSD lite kernel would have gained tra= ction and you would have seen a GNU BSD vs NetBSD thing. I can=E2=80=99t see it though gaining the kind of traction Linux got as it = was all so cloistered. Much like how GNU Mach never caught on or moved des= pite having a NetBSD port (Lites) to it. The killer feature should have be= en SMP which was available early on in Mach, although it seems that the MPS= 1.0 stuff didn=E2=80=99t work well enough or by the time 1.1 caught on it = just wasn=E2=80=99t good enough. I think the development model of Linux is what really drove it, just like h= ow EGCS eclipsed GCC.=20 The other crazy thing that hits me is that no Linux means no Caldera which = means no Caldera 32v license being set free...=C2=A0 From: Arthur Krewat Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:14 AM To: TUHS main list Subject: [TUHS] If not Linux, then what? https://linux.slashdot.org/story/19/08/26/0051234/celebrating-the-28th-anni= versary-of-the-linux-kernel Leaving licensing and copyright issues out of this mental exercise, what=20 would we have now if it wasn't for Linux? Not what you'd WANT it to be,=20 although that can add to the discussion, but what WOULD it be? I'm not asking as a proponent of Linux. If anything, I was dragged=20 kicking and screaming into the current day and have begrudgingly ceded=20 my server space to Linux. But if not for Linux, would it be BSD? A System V variant? Or (the=20 horror) Windows NT? I do understand that this has been discussed on the list before. I=20 think, however, it would make a good late-summer exercise. Or late=20 winter depending on where you are :) art k. --_37E6C4CB-7558-40DF-8827-9840AEF56741_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

Maybe that plan B of GNU using the 4= .4BSD lite kernel would have gained traction and you would have seen a GNU = BSD vs NetBSD thing.

 

I can=E2=80=99t see it though gaining the kind of tr= action Linux got as it was all so cloistered.=C2=A0 Much like how GNU Mach = never caught on or moved despite having a NetBSD port (Lites) to it.=C2=A0 = The killer feature should have been SMP which was available early on in Mac= h, although it seems that the MPS 1.0 stuff didn=E2=80=99t work well enough= or by the time 1.1 caught on it just wasn=E2=80=99t good enough.

 

I think= the development model of Linux is what really drove it, just like how EGCS= eclipsed GCC.

 

The ot= her crazy thing that hits me is that no Linux means no Caldera which means = no Caldera 32v license being set free... 

 

 

From: Arthu= r Krewat
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:14 AM
To: TUHS main list
Subject: = [TUHS] If not Linux, then what?

&nbs= p;

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/19/08/26/= 0051234/celebrating-the-28th-anniversary-of-the-linux-kernel

 

Leaving licensing and c= opyright issues out of this mental exercise, what

= would we have now if it wasn't for Linux? Not what you'd WANT it to be,

although that can add to the discussion, but what WOU= LD it be?

 

I'm not asking as a proponent of Linux. If anything, I was dragged

kicking and screaming into the current day and have begru= dgingly ceded

my server space to Linux.

 

But if not for Linu= x, would it be BSD? A System V variant? Or (the

ho= rror) Windows NT?

 

I do understand that this has been discussed on the list before. I=

think, however, it would make a good late-summer = exercise. Or late

winter depending on where you ar= e :)

 

art = k.

 

&= nbsp;

= --_37E6C4CB-7558-40DF-8827-9840AEF56741_--