From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26277 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2023 10:25:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 Jan 2023 10:25:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25C4A42446; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 20:25:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from ewsoutbound.kpnmail.nl (unknown [195.121.94.169]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D44442445 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 20:25:34 +1000 (AEST) X-KPN-MessageId: 989aaa93-89be-11ed-97dd-005056abad63 Received: from smtp.kpnmail.nl (unknown [10.31.155.39]) by ewsoutbound.so.kpn.org (Halon) with ESMTPS id 989aaa93-89be-11ed-97dd-005056abad63; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 11:25:21 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=planet.nl; s=planet01; h=to:message-id:date:from:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=KqFDTGm7h37bIrfiEn4Gde9/3iZY7qmcBDErcMFpuxs=; b=IrzTJzlIEVp7zQCjeGcQGhCsjQ94bjw8r51D9Q7oM7i8in2qMISm7nVb3417uhdtBH6FP/XX7f8hO p+69x6ff6/oPIXV3ddM2//pcw3ecvkzVpChWUjAr5na31lCUKHOykLq9TFGonBkx9t00SW/JLrFOfB 3pUgthvbvlC3sKMg= X-KPN-MID: 33|HhMiOPE+ZkZ+GtWeLhL/x6JNf2R2aHDkpakiW1sjpO44g73q0pdx6Ewe9GOOunR HFk1Wks9JUwqp8s/Wtmw8NFC0CHDDB6h8vW8pNHDFcyU= X-KPN-VerifiedSender: Yes X-CMASSUN: 33|Ri3iCckarDxbcrjpd1XLCIgFBBsF0upApLC7F42Mm+Cm+kIOjkL3EG40UMSdQRT GSNBavmWSe3ketbkwLsnDVw== X-Originating-IP: 77.172.38.96 Received: from smtpclient.apple (77-172-38-96.fixed.kpn.net [77.172.38.96]) by smtp.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 99027d0c-89be-11ed-ab4b-005056ab7447; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 11:25:22 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Paul Ruizendaal In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2023 11:25:21 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <67F165EB-17E6-4317-AF8D-E6F20B7F3DE6@planet.nl> References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <18521483-A73C-4B5F-A76A-6098BD93E9BC@planet.nl> To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) Message-ID-Hash: FAMLS47DQI676AHNUTVCRUBOH4KLXSUD X-Message-ID-Hash: FAMLS47DQI676AHNUTVCRUBOH4KLXSUD X-MailFrom: pnr@planet.nl X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: > On 1 Jan 2023, at 06:25, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > Still begs the question of when 32v started paging. :) The London/Reiser paper includes: "Work on the C compiler began in mid-December 1977. The hardware arrived = on March 3. We held a party on May 19 to celebrate successful multiuser = operation of the system." John Reiser had the following timeline in a mail conversation about a = year ago. "Our VAX-11/780, the first one delivered to a customer, arrived Feb.12, = 1978 (Lincoln's Birthday). Tom and I had been preparing using PDP-11/45 = since December, and we achieved "login: " on the console DECwriter by April 15 (the deadline for US income tax filing). The rest of 1978 was "tuning", and preparing for the release of "UNIX-32/V" to UC Berkeley.=E2=80=9D The dates don=E2=80=99t match to the day, but the timeline is = essentially the same (moreover, delivery of VAX hardware is not the same = as it being operational, achieving login: is but the first step of = bringing the user land up). This sets a minimum timeline for arriving at a first version of = =E2=80=9Cslowsys=E2=80=9D. The timestamps on the surviving files of = slowsys show January 1979. Joy and Babaoglu write in =E2=80=9CConverting a Swap-Based System to do = Paging in an Architecture Lacking Page-Referenced Bits=E2=80=9D: "In the fall of 1978 the Computer Science Division of the University of = California at Berkeley purchased a VAX-11/780 and arranged to run an = early version of UNIX for the VAX provided by Bell Laboratories under a = cooperative research agreement. [...] A subsequent version of the system = was capable of loading processes into noncontiguous real memory = locations, called scatter loading , and was able to swap only portions = of a process, called partial swapping, as deemed necessary by the memory = contention. This would become the basis for the paging system = development discussed in this paper.=E2=80=9D This places the earliest moment for scatter paging as the Fall of 1978. = The timestamps of the surviving files of sys show March 1979, which is = the latest moment. The for the timeline of 32V with true demand paging John Reiser = recalled: "My annual performance review in early 1979 said "Well done; but don't = ever do it again=E2=80=9D because it was not regarded as "Research=E2=80=9D. So = what did I do? I did it again; this time, with demand paging. I designed and implemented = mmap() based on experience with PDP-10/Tenex PMAP page mapping system call. I fretted = over introducing the first UNIX system call with 6 arguments.=E2=80=9D John recalls that it was a 6 or 7 months effort, with the last few being = a "long tail" of decreasing attention. The would place this third = version as completed around the Fall of 1979. This is consistent with = Rob Pike=E2=80=99s recollection that he saw it being demonstrated early = in 1980. In 1980 Research had to chose how to progress in the field of memory = management. The Reiser system was cool, but not supported by management = and the BSD VM system was seen as good enough to use. 3BSD is from early = 1980, 4BSD from late 1980. Likely the conflicting recollections of Bill = Joy are because it was a snapshot somewhere in between (plus the general = issues around recollection). In any case, the 1985 snapshot of 8th = edition appears to have been based on 4.1BSD (early 1981), so that is = when the systems split.