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[107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r13sm8782721qtw.41.2022.01.11.18.11.00 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:11:00 -0800 (PST) From: Bakul Shah Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.40.0.1.81\)) Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 18:10:59 -0800 References: <20211231234039.GU31637@mcvoy.com> <20220101005605.GL75481@eureka.lemis.com> <20220101031511.GB8135@mcvoy.com> <20220110203300.GY3441@mcvoy.com> <695e2970-00f2-ab55-8c1a-9fbd03add77f@mhorton.net> To: TUHS main list In-Reply-To: <695e2970-00f2-ab55-8c1a-9fbd03add77f@mhorton.net> Message-Id: <69B0EA6A-3B99-4555-AD08-F67FAF52A818@iitbombay.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.40.0.1.81) Subject: Re: [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Don Knuth talks at length about how TeX & MetaFont came about etc. in = his Web of Stories interview in parts 50 through 70. In Part 56 he does = say he looked at "the system developed at Bell Labs", presumably troff. = In part 68 he talks about the importance of stability fot TeX and later = talks about LaTeX and ConTeXt. = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DUzqhuWBClcM&list=3DPLVV0r6CmEsFzeNLngr1J= qyQki3wdoGrCn&index=3D56 I must say I am a fan of TeX/LaTeX and not a fan of nroff/troff -- I = don't like the troff look and I don't like the markup. The nice thing is = we can choose whatever typesetting tools we want! I played with other = alternatives such as lout and Sile but didn't like them all that much. I = immediately liked the TeX's model of boxes and glue. I like the fact = that I can typeset Indic language text beautifully. But like any complex = tool, you have to take time to learn it and practice to get proficient = at it. At the same time I am not a fan of the way Knuth does literate = programming. What I'd like is a two view editor where I can jump from = code to related documentation and vice versa. And when you're working on = one, the related part in the other view highlighted. In this world I = don't want to deal with files and directories -- just one virtual = document, however it is stored put under version control! > On Jan 11, 2022, at 5:19 PM, Mary Ann Horton wrote: >=20 > I recall attending a TeX lecture by Knuth around 1981. He said he = wasn't satisfied with the character layout from other formatting = programs, which drove him to write TeX. He illustrated in great detail = the kerning and exact placement of the font characters next to each = other. I couldn't tell the difference, but clearly it was very important = to him. He wanted his documents to look perfect. >=20 > On 1/10/22 12:33 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: >> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 01:00:15PM -0600, Blake McBride wrote: >>> 2. Looking at the output, it is my opinion that TeX produces >>> better-looking documents. >> It's a double edged sword. TeX looks better but you instantly know = it is >> TeX, it has a particular look. Troff looks just fine to me, and you = don't >> know it is Troff, Word, or what.