From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: (qmail 13770 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2020 16:02:55 -0000 Received-SPF: pass (minnie.tuhs.org: domain of minnie.tuhs.org designates 45.79.103.53 as permitted sender) receiver=inbox.vuxu.org; client-ip=45.79.103.53 envelope-from= Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with UTF8ESMTPZ; 30 Mar 2020 16:02:55 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E0FC39D717; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 02:02:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DACBB9D712; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 02:02:20 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=planet.nl header.i=@planet.nl header.b="ZKW1g+Tm"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 35BDE9D712; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 02:02:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from cpsmtpb-ews07.kpnxchange.com (cpsmtpb-ews07.kpnxchange.com [213.75.39.10]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664C79D711 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 02:02:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from cpsps-ews06.kpnxchange.com ([10.94.84.173]) by cpsmtpb-ews07.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(8.5.9600.16384); Mon, 30 Mar 2020 18:02:11 +0200 X-Brand: 7abm2Q== X-KPN-SpamVerdict: e1=0;e2=0;e3=0;e4=(e1=10;e3=10;e2=11;e4=10);EVW:Whi te;BM:NotScanned;FinalVerdict:Clean X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=eZemg4MH c=1 sm=1 tr=0 cx=a_idp_e a=WB5lYbMG1jvHJ1f8o08CVQ==:117 a=soxbC+bCkqwFbqeW/W/r+Q==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x1i13A_MHe4A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=SS2py6AdgQ4A:10 a=jEIl9BPeAAAA:8 a=Cw9lvTR9rX9sp5bvqIoA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=UbykG2d9i8y_PxD0dgl3:22 X-CM-AcctID: kpn@feedback.cloudmark.com Received: from smtp.kpnmail.nl ([195.121.84.14]) by cpsps-ews06.kpnxchange.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(8.5.9600.16384); Mon, 30 Mar 2020 18:02:11 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=planet.nl; s=planet01; h=to:message-id:date:from:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=SgUQbcz8tJJ5SWICFIyStZ9Oz4VoQdZtL+tfB8Bka84=; b=ZKW1g+Tm1Amx1uiSvWtD1nSVEjF57ROehw0eKysEx4x+pGUwqut4me6HGYsfvf+Mwz9F8BAS2/phY o3ek8wxSm4VLEDrbQnLPB67FR9RHn0Y5wDUdv+UB6xrnZWD2uq/PipBAEhfRRbH7u4mw0o30AKvpzH O+sK+FI7BBRM5xM8= X-KPN-VerifiedSender: Yes X-CMASSUN: 33|1F0B+78ViM+eInADin4Bv+l3gYHMWSQ2jZ3H8GXcWSqdcmZCssgYJRhm2RME1O6 qFREHEQ+Rj8sF2GWGK+nnkg== X-Originating-IP: 80.101.112.122 Received: from mba2.fritz.box (sqlite.xs4all.nl [80.101.112.122]) by smtp.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTPSA id d0993fd3-729f-11ea-b75f-00505699d6e5; Mon, 30 Mar 2020 18:02:11 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Paul Ruizendaal In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2020 18:02:11 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6AE2011D-32EF-4E1E-A231-9DFAC683FE48@planet.nl> References: <20C3B8BE-E371-4694-8A34-EEC6A5461FAD@planet.nl> <202003291404.02TE4dAI022916@freefriends.org> <2298456D-A786-40C2-9C68-26C99E2002E1@planet.nl> To: TUHS main list X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2020 16:02:11.0992 (UTC) FILETIME=[92BBA180:01D606AC] X-RcptDomain: minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] 8th Edition timeline X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Comments in line: > On 30 Mar 2020, at 15:26, Clem Cole wrote: >=20 > Paul - see below.. >=20 > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 3:43 AM Paul Ruizendaal wrote: > To be honest, late 1981 sounds a bit too early for the merge. The 4.1 = code was ready in June 1981 and the =E2=80=99select=E2=80=99 system call = was first proposed in July 1981, so it is possible. However, in the BSD = line =E2=80=99select=E2=80=99 was not fully implemented until = March/April 1982. > Please be careful here. 4.1BSD is different from the pre-'4.2' = released and 4.2BSD itself. 4.1aBSD was the first pseudo release[1] that = started to have the major surgery to support Bill's sockets idea and = splice in the UCB rewrite of the BBN code. 4.1BSD was the first system = for the Vax that really wide distribution. 'Anyone' with an AT&T = license could get it and most people did. Remember this is the system = that BBN (Gurwitz) did the original IP/TCP support (sans sockets - i.e. = /dev/ip /dev/tcp ...). Your date of June '81 for the 4.1BSD release = seems late, but I'll accept it. 3BSD was 1979, and I thought 4BSD was a = year later, with 4.1BSD a few months after 4BSD (few people actually got = 4BSD) I am aware of that. =E2=80=9C20 years of Berkely Unix=E2=80=9D says = November 1980 for 4BSD and June 1981 for 4.1BSD. =46rom the SCCS log = I=E2=80=99d say November 9th and July 1st respectively. As far as I can tell CSRG integrated the BBN stack with (almost) 4.1 in = April 1981 - most of that is in a separate tree, with a few #ifdef=E2=80=99= s in the main tree. =46rom SCCS it seems that implementation work on = sockets started in Oct/Nov 1981 and 4.1a was released in April or March = 1982. =46rom the partial coverage in SCCS I=E2=80=99d say there is no = BBN code in 4.1a anymore. The socket API in that release was different = from what ended being in 4.1c and 4.2, and seems to have had some wider = visibility in 2.9BSD and UniPlus System V - both of which used the 4.1a = API (and probably code base). > That said, Bill and Sam did the heavy lifting on select(2) first in = 4.1aBSD and there were some issues (again I have forgotten the details = -- I do remember, I was working on my thesis and I had a do a huge = rewrite of the AP kernel support to handle select(2) properly). I = remember talking to Sam (arguing with him most probably) about it one = night before it was fully created. I want to say, he had worked on = something similar at the firm he was at (the firm name I now forget -- = si-mumble -- they were in Mt. View) before he joined CRSG. I don't = remember now the issues I had, but I do remember it was a bit of mess to = support the way the AP hardware assumed it could do DMA on the UBA[2] > [1] 4.1a/4.1b/4.1cBSD was officially internal to UCB and some = ARPA-sites, although I would have expected someone like Dennis in 1127 = to have been sent it also, as wnj was in the process of leaving for Sun = and he took them with him. For instance, I would take 4.1c to Masscomp. = The key is that these were not as widely distributed as 4.1BSD. = 4.2BSD would really accelerate BSD UNIX uptake, because of the = networking support but there was more than 2-3 years between 4.1BSD and = 4.2BSD. Yes, Summer 81 - Summer 82 must have been a vibrant year, with much = interaction between various Unix groups. By the way, dmr was on the = 4.2BSD steering group. > [2] The AP's MMU/DMA interface at the time, was causing me great = hair, and that was likely to have been part of the reason I wanted some = help/changes in the KPI interface - which is actually funny, they = eventually came with the CMU Mach MMU changes of 4.4BSD (which was much = more friendly to a multiprocessor/coprocessor architecture). FWIW: I = never got them when I was at UCB.