From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 30331 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2020 02:49:46 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 15 Jun 2020 02:49:46 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 80C2B9C6B2; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:49:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40AD9C24C; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:49:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 517AD9C24C; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:49:20 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 1380 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:49:19 AEST Received: from mail.kaybuena.com (rrcs-71-42-153-194.sw.biz.rr.com [71.42.153.194]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1228D9C246 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 12:49:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from [192.168.147.100] (4dot2 [71.42.153.195]) by mail.kaybuena.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 05F2Q942689931; Sun, 14 Jun 2020 21:26:10 -0500 From: "Charles H. Sauer" Message-Id: <6D89AB08-4BE1-4809-BE20-5CE3C284DA97@technologists.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BA8803D4-6E33-423C-87A3-0C8C90ED10C3" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 21:26:08 -0500 In-Reply-To: To: Warner Losh References: <20200614225208.GB6122@minnie.tuhs.org> <20200615003113.GF18267@att.net> <20200615003530.GG18267@att.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (mail.kaybuena.com [71.42.153.194]); Sun, 14 Jun 2020 21:26:10 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Origins and life of the pg pager X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Michael Siegel Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_BA8803D4-6E33-423C-87A3-0C8C90ED10C3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 My memory is that pg was =E2=80=9Calways=E2=80=9D in AIX for the RT. The = group of us that worked on BSD convergence deprecated pg in favor of = more, if I recall correctly. So far I don=E2=80=99t know how to verify = any of this. It is also my memory that PC/IX (Sys III-based?) had pg. If so, ISC may = have also included similar pg in both early AIX and PC/IX. Charlie > On Jun 14, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Warner Losh wrote: >=20 > Here's what I've found: >=20 > There's a pg.c, starting in System Vr2. R1 didn't have it. >=20 > It changed in a number of fussy ways, but nothing substantial. >=20 > It grew that copyright notice in SVr3, but the sun one quoted is = missing > /* Copyright (c) 1990, 1991 UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. */ > that should have been there to, suggesting it was snagged between r2 = and r3. >=20 > There's also two other copies of pg as well. There's one in 32V. = Though a quick diff suggests little in common with the System Vr2 = version. >=20 > There's also one in the BRL/JHU pdp-11 version of unix that is nearly = identical to the System Vr2 one. Though it's dated 1985 while the SVr2 = one is 1983. Both with a 1984 copyright by AT&T. >=20 > SunOS 4.1.3 shipped with the System Vr2 version. in 5bin. >=20 > Irix 6.5.5 had what looks like the System Vr3 copy in it, though I = didn't delve into it. >=20 > So this supports the recollections here that it was from System Vr2... >=20 > However, there's also a Doug Gwen version from the Delaware 1980 = Usenix tape submitted by geotronics and on other tapes. Haven't delved = on what makes these different from each other though. >=20 > There's one in the NOSC unix we have in the archive, unrelated, it = seems to either of these. It's dated in 1979. >=20 > There's still another one on the UNSW tapes from 1978 by Sape = Mullender Informatics staff Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam. Also = independent. It's on the 4th tape we have in the archive. >=20 > 10th edition also has pg.c, but it's an I/O pager for the kernel. >=20 > Which explains another comment in the System Vr2 one: > * Note: The reason that there are so many commands to do > * the same types of things is to try to accommodate > * users of other paginators. >=20 > Warner >=20 > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alan D. Salewski > wrote: > [missed a footnote; fixed] >=20 > On 2020-06-14 20:31:13, Alan D. Salewski spake thus: > > I first encountered 'pg' on an IBM RT[0] running AIX 2.x, whose = wikipedia > > page[1] describes it this way: > >=20 > > "AIX is based on UNIX System V with 4.3BSD-compatible = extensions" > >=20 > > -Al > >=20 > > [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_RT_PC = >=20 > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_AIX = >=20 > --=20 > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > a l a n d. s a l e w s k i salewski@att.net = > 1024D/FA2C3588 EDFA 195F EDF1 0933 1002 6396 7C92 5CB3 FA2C 3588 > ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer@technologists.com = =20 fax: +1.512.346.5240 web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ = Facebook/Google/Skype/Twitter: CharlesHSauer --Apple-Mail=_BA8803D4-6E33-423C-87A3-0C8C90ED10C3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 My = memory is that pg was =E2=80=9Calways=E2=80=9D in AIX for the RT. The = group of us that worked on BSD convergence deprecated pg in favor of = more, if I recall correctly. So far I don=E2=80=99t know how to verify = any of this.

It is = also my memory that PC/IX (Sys III-based?) had pg. If so, ISC may have = also included similar pg in both early AIX and PC/IX.

Charlie

On Jun 14, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> = wrote:

Here's what I've found:

There's a pg.c, starting in System Vr2. = R1 didn't have it.

It changed in a number of fussy ways, but nothing = substantial.

It = grew that copyright notice in SVr3, but the sun one quoted is = missing
/*     Copyright (c) 1990, 1991 = UNIX System Laboratories, Inc. */
that= should have been there to, suggesting it was snagged between r2 = and r3.

There's = also two other copies of pg as well. There's one in 32V. Though a quick = diff suggests little in common with the System Vr2 version.

There's also one in the = BRL/JHU pdp-11 version of unix that is nearly identical to the System = Vr2 one. Though it's dated 1985 while the SVr2 one is 1983. Both with a = 1984 copyright by AT&T.

SunOS 4.1.3 shipped with the System Vr2 version. in = 5bin.

Irix = 6.5.5 had what looks like the System Vr3 copy in it, though I didn't = delve into it.

So this supports the recollections here that it was from = System Vr2...

However, there's also a Doug Gwen version from the = Delaware 1980 Usenix tape submitted by geotronics and on other = tapes. Haven't delved on what makes these different from each other = though.

There's = one in the NOSC unix we have in the archive, unrelated, it seems to = either of these. It's dated in 1979.

There's still another one on the UNSW = tapes from 1978 by Sape Mullender Informatics staff Vrije Universiteit = Amsterdam. Also independent. It's on the 4th tape we have in the = archive.

10th = edition also has pg.c, but it's an I/O pager for the kernel.

Which explains another = comment in the System Vr2 one:
 *   =    Note:   The reason that there are so many commands to = do
 *             =  the same types of things is to try to accommodate
 *              users = of other paginators.

Warner

On Sun, Jun = 14, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alan D. Salewski <salewski@att.net> = wrote:
[missed a footnote; fixed]

On 2020-06-14 20:31:13, Alan D. Salewski spake thus:
> I first encountered 'pg' on an IBM RT[0] running AIX 2.x, whose = wikipedia
> page[1] describes it this way:
>
>     "AIX is based on UNIX System V with = 4.3BSD-compatible extensions"
>
> -Al
>
> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_RT_PC

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_AIX

--
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