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[62.195.36.138]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l30-v6sm2478281edc.70.2018.08.08.05.59.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 08 Aug 2018 05:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9BF23242-BB6B-4631-A209-B0EF45F812BE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Don Hopkins X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <20180808123229.86FD5E465F@mailuser.nyi.internal> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 14:59:06 +0200 Message-Id: <6EBCF9E5-4600-42D6-9F83-3E2966140540@donhopkins.com> References: <20180808123229.86FD5E465F@mailuser.nyi.internal> To: "Sijmen J. Mulder" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 33, Issue 7 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org" Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_9BF23242-BB6B-4631-A209-B0EF45F812BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I strongly dislike something as trivial as a prompt taking up my TIME = and ATTENTION. I have room for many more lines in my terminal emulator = and emacs shell window than I have time and attention or patience for = carefully pointing and clicking and editing out prompts (or even talking = about half-assed kludges when there=E2=80=99s a simple obvious solution = to the problem), and much better things to do with my time and energy.=20= To me, there is virtually no cost to having an extra line in my terminal = or shell window, while the repeated cost of all the time and effort I = have to waste working around the clutter of the prompt, integrated over = the hundreds of times per day I use the command line, totally overwhelms = any aesthetic considerations of disliking prompts taking up a line (or = insisting on a clear line before it -- I don=E2=80=99t understand why = you would suggest such a straw man, which is not what I was advocating). = I=E2=80=99m not trying to paint the Mona Lisa in ASCII art, I=E2=80=99m = simply trying to save time and effort.=20 What=E2=80=99s the downside to the prompt taking up a full line (and as = a result, the command taking up a whole line without being polluted with = a prompt), other than strongly disliking things you=E2=80=99re not used = to? Is your terminal emulator configured to only remember 24 lines? And = why are you so averse to clutter, yet have no problem with the prompt = cluttering up your input, which causes real non-aesthetic problems?=20 I used to use a shitty HP 2640 terminal in high school that only had a = half a page of screen memory (but didn=E2=80=99t store the spaces at the = end of the lines, so you could fit 12 80-character lines on the screen, = or 24 40-character lines), so if you printed out long lines, it would = start scrolling before there was a full screen of text. At least the 300 = baud modem gave you time to ponder over those few lines before they = scrolled off the screen. In that scenario, lines of text were precious, = although the HP terminals charge by characters, not lines. But I don=E2=80= =99t think anybody in their right mind uses terminals like that any = more.=20 -Don > On 8 Aug 2018, at 14:32, Sijmen J. Mulder wrote: >=20 > > Decades ago I made my prompt simply end with a newline, which = perfectly > > and cleanly solves the problem of making it easy to copy and paste a > > whole line > =20 > I never considered setting a copy/paste-friendly prompt but I strongly > dislike prompts taking up a line. Admittedly it's nice to have some = room > for extra information but then you'll want a clear line above it too = for > visual structure and that's all just too much clutter for me. --Apple-Mail=_9BF23242-BB6B-4631-A209-B0EF45F812BE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = strongly dislike something as trivial as a prompt taking up my TIME and = ATTENTION. I have room for many more lines in my terminal emulator and = emacs shell window than I have time and attention or patience for = carefully pointing and clicking and editing out prompts (or even talking = about half-assed kludges when there=E2=80=99s a simple obvious solution = to the problem), and much better things to do with my time and = energy. 

To me, = there is virtually no cost to having an extra line in my terminal or = shell window, while the repeated cost of all the time and effort I have = to waste working around the clutter of the prompt, integrated over the = hundreds of times per day I use the command line, totally overwhelms any = aesthetic considerations of disliking prompts taking up a line (or = insisting on a clear line before it -- I don=E2=80=99t understand why = you would suggest such a straw man, which is not what I was advocating). = I=E2=80=99m not trying to paint the Mona Lisa in ASCII art, I=E2=80=99m = simply trying to save time and effort. 

What=E2=80=99s the downside to the = prompt taking up a full line (and as a result, the command taking up a = whole line without being polluted with a prompt), other than strongly = disliking things you=E2=80=99re not used to? Is your terminal emulator = configured to only remember 24 lines? And why are you so averse to = clutter, yet have no problem with the prompt cluttering up your input, = which causes real non-aesthetic problems? 

I used to use a shitty HP 2640 terminal = in high school that only had a half a page of screen memory (but = didn=E2=80=99t store the spaces at the end of the lines, so you could = fit 12 80-character lines on the screen, or 24 40-character lines), so = if you printed out long lines, it would start scrolling before there was = a full screen of text. At least the 300 baud modem gave you time to = ponder over those few lines before they scrolled off the screen. In that = scenario, lines of text were precious, although the HP terminals charge = by characters, not lines. But I don=E2=80=99t think anybody in their = right mind uses terminals like that any more. 

-Don


On 8 Aug = 2018, at 14:32, Sijmen J. Mulder <ik@sjmulder.nl> wrote:

> = Decades ago I made my prompt simply end with a newline, which = perfectly
> and cleanly solves = the problem of making it easy to copy and paste a
> whole line
 
I never considered setting a = copy/paste-friendly prompt but I strongly
dislike prompts taking up a line. Admittedly it's nice to = have some room
for extra = information but then you'll want a clear line above it too for
visual structure and that's all just = too much clutter for me.

= --Apple-Mail=_9BF23242-BB6B-4631-A209-B0EF45F812BE--