From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 18140 invoked from network); 8 Sep 2021 11:15:09 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 8 Sep 2021 11:15:09 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CB1E89C8EF; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 21:15:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A0D9BB68; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 21:14:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 63B669BB67; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 21:14:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from ppsw-30.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-30.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.130]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D15139BB66 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 2021 21:14:29 +1000 (AEST) X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found X-Cam-ScannerInfo: https://help.uis.cam.ac.uk/email-scanner-virus Received: from [87.74.218.174] (port=64916 helo=milebook.lan) by ppsw-30.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.156]:25) with esmtpsa (PLAIN:fanf2) (TLS1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) id 1mNvX9-000ZMX-fc (Exim 4.94.2) (return-path ); Wed, 08 Sep 2021 12:14:27 +0100 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 12:14:27 +0100 From: Tony Finch To: Theodore Ts'o In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72b1fb8c-9790-3d79-5645-fc216bb516e@dotat.at> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware (Timothy Roscoe) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Theodore Ts'o wrote: > > There have been many, many proposals in the distributed computing > arena which all try to answer these questions differently. Solaris > had an answer with Yellow Pages, NFS, etc. OSF/DCE had an answer > involving Kerberos, DCE/RPC, DCE/DFS, etc. More recently we have > Docker's Swarm and Kubernetes, etc. None have achieved dominance, and > that should tell us something. I think there are two different kinds of distributed computing there. Distributed authentication and administration is dominated by Microsoft Active Directory (LDAP, Kerberos, DNS, SMB, ...) which I think can reasonably be regarded as part of Windows (even if many Windows machines aren't part of an AD). That kind of distributed system doesn't try to help you stop caring that there are lots of computers. Whereas Kubernetes and Docker Swarm do automatic lifecycle management for distributed workloads. I have not yet had the pleasure (?) of working with them but I get the impression that it's difficult to set up their access control to stop giving everything root on everything else. They try much harder to make a cluster work as a single system. Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch https://dotat.at/ St Davids Head to Great Orme Head, including St Georges Channel: Easterly or southeasterly 2 to 4, occasionally 5 at first in north, becoming variable 2 to 4 later. Smooth or slight. Showers, perhaps thundery, fog patches later. Moderate or good, occasionally very poor later.