From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25104 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2022 22:30:33 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 Feb 2022 22:30:33 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id EFC9A9D6BD; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:30:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B3089BA66; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:30:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7E8379BA66; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:30:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: from cesium.clock.org (cesium.clock.org [157.22.10.65]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF0489B95E for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:30:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from cesium.clock.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cesium.clock.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC91CC076 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 14:30:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Erik E. Fair" In-reply-to: References: <20220201181909.6224518C086@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> To: Unix Historical Something or other Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2022 14:30:14 -0800 Message-ID: <7660.1643754614@cesium.clock.org> Subject: Re: [TUHS] ratfor vibe X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" With regard to programming languages at UCB in 1980 ... I'd done something of a survey of colleges, and in my mind at the time, there = were two approaches to a CS degree: mostly or entirely theoretical (those CS = departments that had grown out of Mathematics tended to have this focus), or = more practical tools/techniques/operational theory (those CS departments that = had grown out of Engineering tended to be this way). UCB was definitely the = latter, and that's what I wanted. I got to UCB in fall 1980, admitted to the College of Letters & Science. = At the time, there were two ways to get intro to programming: CS1 - FORTRAN IV, taught on the CDC 6400 running CalidoSCOPE in batch mode = with real punch cards, punched up on IBM 029 keypunch machines. CS3 - Pascal, as Clem described. CS1 was for engineers & scientists, CS3 for students who wanted to get into = the CS degree program in L&S. You could take CS1 in lieu of CS3, but that was = frowned upon. Two paths to a computer science degree: A.B. CS from L&S, or B.S. EECS from = the College of Engineering (which you had to be explicitly admitted to before = you got there). There was a basic difference in emphasis between L&S and Engineering for CS: = L&S was "software with a smattering of hardware" (cf. CS-150, CS-152), and = Engineering's EECS (B.S.) degree was the inverse: "hardware with a smattering = of software." L&S was the largest "college" at UCB: everyone got into that one "undeclared", = and for your freshman & sophmore years, you studied to accumulate course = credits towards declaring a major once you had "sophmore standing" (however, = if you were prudent, you accumulated credits towards a "backup" major if the = undergraduate degree program you wanted wouldn't/couldn't let you in). If you = couldn't declare major at sophmore standing, you were bounced out of the = university. Some of this setup was hangover from anti-student radical policies = from the 1960s: prevent "students" from hanging around the university forever = (and fomenting). The "weeder" course for L&S CS was CS40: more Pascal than you'd ever want to = code in a lifetime. L&S CS needed that filter: just before I got there, they'd = let anyone into the program, but in 1980 or 1981, they limited the class size = to 200 undergrads because there was too much demand from students for that = degree program for the department to handle - didn't make the cut? I hope you = have a backup major ... They didn't formally teach C to undergrads until "upper division" (declared = major in CS, junior or senior standing), and IIRC, there wasn't a formal course = in it - you were expected to pick it up as part of the upper division course = in operating systems. After all, you already know Pascal and Assembly, right? Of course, once you had an account on one of the PDP-11/70s running Unix, C = and shell programming was entirely available to you, so I went for what = amounted to self-directed learning (reading manuals & books) as fast as I = could. Erik