From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: tfb@tfeb.org (tfb@tfeb.org)
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 14:37:08 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] X, Suntools, and the like
In-Reply-To: <CAH1jEzaKhLTDgvKSUxdfPATzBZ05_a88b1y8cQNgSMbm6VVEPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <011901d29cf3$a5e41560$f1ac4020$@ronnatalie.com>
 <CAH1jEzY5g6zGSxsXEHc+Q7mYyegU+aSr-zpfJ0cwRfSGSUdgCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzb7eSr0xcoBX8bfzL6batBfxOF+8jhbVFs=x1CFWAJ65g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzY38dmbASRLMrQnoX0-eANA0YBW=j=LLC1y1axi=672yg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzbYS8fJgNGFMa+2SoLUWCQQAxVSuxrZp-z2uunXS+R8GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEza89JHeTZBQ6y_wvu7iVjW+qV2_Ucg1gWbWnhG2Jc9rLg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzaZxATj5BPu2+d213PpUQqH8Q0LnA2syXxCm4LvpXPqYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEza6NO3UcZsR4foQwqFosJWRdYCn5FQfxDy596Nj_+SKdA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzYK04=fDQ8FAu2PvKS=heZK_Da=LB=cQ4g9nZybM-DsMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzYMRu_e4Az1+Ns7JA0K5FUjRCrvjOkWVC85WodtLaB52g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzZQXAS+bwqV76J8_WkUD-3tR7P_z-mQrRkFv-Khm-R4Eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzY2L1k4_QNUFtscovpD1_gORPRVY_=n47dmBY3fh=JUXA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEza5F4oyQ8bByypWevLW3RwZ4Q4Zfz-roiGi5ksyGup9Zw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzb9Rv+iER45NSCGfFerrXaD1v8PN=j92iOg7oU=4q62Rw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzav9Y0vM75GaVqVBj=0nXmjdjucF+mx=FBkRO4QP8Soeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzZrXT=6+Qu1=o60_aJ6z0zCxW7Vfvbpxh0TKU+aYOvhKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <4227EA32-12C2-46D1-B683-88812D1E5168@tfeb.org>
 <CAH1jEzb7tKSa5H_k-pCT_7x6xzJHdavm4dZySnhkmYL7WG2HEA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEza9jmb09SDvQi5cQV_g6oO97dgx-VsQobMG=RddqRBxsA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH1jEzbfXtLavUQ_K5DV8Mp3dk9tvpqiX3q5r8_yw=35yCfzjg@mail.gmail.com>
 <3B3776C9-1B22-4143-A4F5-0BEA13C79505@tfeb.org>
 <CAH1jEzaKhLTDgvKSUxdfPATzBZ05_a88b1y8cQNgSMbm6VVEPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <76BC14F6-AAA1-48EC-B803-878779F1A0CD@tfeb.org>

On 15 Mar 2017, at 13:12, Nick Downing <downing.nick at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hmm well that DOES sound a bit patronizing

Sorry, it was not meant to be.  All I was trying to say was that X in fact works extremely well for the environments it is designed for (in which I now work), and for people who need to use graphical tools in those environments, and ripping out the network transparency (which seems to be what a bunch of people want to do) would be this geological step backwards in those environments: a GUI which is local to one machine is just a hugely limiting thing.  The whole reason I originally started using X was not that it was faster than Suntools (because it was catastrophically slower) but the network transparency.

I think the bloat argument is also one of those things which has been overtaken by events: X is bloated in the sense that Common Lisp is bloated: they were both a serious pain in the 1990s, but compared to anything with the word 'enterprise' in its name they now look like these svelte lightweight things which start in a tiny fraction of a second.

But I don't want to get into a fight about this and it's probably off-topic anyway (and again, sorry if I seemed patronising that was not my intention at all: probably should not send email with a cold).

--tim