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From: Brantley Coile <brantley@coraid.com>
To: Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co>
Cc: "tuhs@tuhs.org" <tuhs@tuhs.org>, Doug McIlroy <doug@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] reviving a bit of WWB
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 21:33:06 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7F7B78DB-A3B5-4137-9301-E356A5C7EB88@coraid.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.21.2009201654300.10605@sd-119843.dedibox.fr>

The fact that a pointer of zero generates a hardware trap is not defined in the language, whereas a 0 is is defined to be a null pointer. 

I've worked on systems where a 0 pointer could be dereferenced without a trap. I wouldn't recommend it. System designers do things like make the first page of memory invalid so we will get a null pointer trap. On Plan 9 the beginning of the text segment starts at 0x1020.

But that's not part of the C language. The fact that 0 is a null pointer is.

Brantley

> On Sep 20, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2020, Doug McIlroy wrote:
> 
>>> (Of course, that assumes NULL is 0, but I don't think I've run into any
>>> architecture so braindead as to not have NULL=0.)
>> 
>> It has nothing to do with machine architecture. The C standard
>> says 0 coerces to the null pointer. NULL, defined in <stddef.h>,
>> is part of the library, not the language. I always use 0,
>> because NULL is a frill.
>> 
>> Doug
> 
> I was under the impression that there was explicitly no requirement that a null pointer be 0, and that there was at least one weird system where that wasn't true - that it just so happened that null points to 0 on certain CPUs and that 0=NULL *happens* to work on most CPUs but wasn't guaranteed. (In fact, I read that my habit of using 0 for NULL relied on a faulty assumption!)
> 
> I mean, I've never actually used a CPU/OS/compiler where it wasn't true, but...
> 
> -uso.


  reply	other threads:[~2020-09-20 21:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-09-19  1:51 Doug McIlroy
2020-09-20 18:42 ` arnold
2020-09-20 19:28   ` Will Senn
2020-09-20 20:12     ` Steve Nickolas
2020-09-20 20:26       ` Doug McIlroy
2020-09-20 20:57         ` Doug McIlroy
2020-09-20 22:13           ` Clem Cole
2020-09-21 20:43             ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-09-20 20:58         ` Steve Nickolas
2020-09-20 21:33           ` Brantley Coile [this message]
2020-10-07  5:43             ` scj
2020-09-20 21:35           ` John Cowan
2021-02-02 23:08             ` Greg A. Woods
2021-02-02 23:47               ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-03  0:11                 ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-03  0:19                   ` Larry McVoy
2021-02-03  2:04                     ` Richard Salz
2021-02-03  3:32                       ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-03  4:32                         ` M Douglas McIlroy
2021-02-03 11:27                           ` Peter Jeremy via TUHS
2021-02-03 20:09                             ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-03 20:13                               ` Niklas Karlsson
2021-02-03 23:46                               ` Tom Lyon
2021-02-03 22:19                           ` Dave Horsfall
2021-02-03 22:55                             ` M Douglas McIlroy
2020-09-20 22:15           ` Clem Cole
2020-09-20 22:47             ` John Cowan
2020-09-21 20:48               ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-09-21 20:46           ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-09-24  2:25       ` Dave Horsfall
2020-09-24  2:33         ` Clem Cole
2020-09-25  0:18           ` [TUHS] One's complement (was: reviving a bit of WWB) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2020-09-25  0:22             ` Warner Losh
2020-09-25  1:39               ` John Cowan
2020-09-27  5:54           ` [TUHS] reviving a bit of WWB Dave Horsfall
2020-09-24 17:19         ` Paul Winalski
2020-09-24 18:17           ` John Cowan
2020-10-07  5:47   ` scj
2020-10-07  9:20     ` arnold
2020-10-08  0:27     ` Dave Horsfall
2020-10-08  3:08       ` John Cowan
2020-09-20 22:51 Norman Wilson
2020-09-20 23:00 Norman Wilson
2020-09-20 23:53 ` Clem Cole
2020-09-21  0:00   ` Clem Cole
2020-09-21  2:24     ` John Cowan
2020-09-21  0:09   ` Warner Losh
2020-09-21  1:05     ` Clem Cole
2020-09-21  5:55     ` Steve Nickolas
2020-09-21  5:59       ` Warner Losh
2020-09-21 18:40         ` Paul Winalski
2020-09-21 19:56           ` Dan Cross
2020-09-21 20:50       ` John Cowan
2020-09-21 21:22         ` Rob Pike
2020-09-21 21:57           ` Clem Cole
2020-09-21 23:56             ` John Cowan
2020-09-22  0:54               ` Richard Salz
2020-09-21 21:39         ` Steve Nickolas
2020-09-25 14:19 Doug McIlroy
2020-09-28 17:35 ` Angelo Papenhoff

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