From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4527 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2021 12:24:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 31 Jan 2021 12:24:08 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 242A69C889; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 22:23:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479569C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 22:23:23 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=kalopa-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@kalopa-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="W9RlFZUw"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E98669C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 22:23:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f45.google.com (mail-wr1-f45.google.com [209.85.221.45]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C55049C63D for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 22:23:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f45.google.com with SMTP id l12so13571310wry.2 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 04:23:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kalopa-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=qZ3tvI5oDWPTLHHf4c5x4xWhTa3U1KKLUR/u0aExshc=; b=W9RlFZUwwlsiuEif8SACEpEfP7H/fi4oi4okpbdqxw8zm//Pmy+X5+ZrT4ssADgiju uFrZa5LmmgV6CbOG+VpwjeSg6af8RLHEEtZ4zZmrhBd8aFD/AugqpxZRLvwm1et8OcLE YsMQDTwdR8OK/OTIZQSXt0791PFlY3gnT3LcbsNhchOdfk1G/2Lnv163KygC+IU9j6Pt NA/wCg0Lug7MrzdMzBLfRTW4j1NRN2X9OWma+QczIArjPatIBfA6bSMYP18sEz8/7fPw 6/PF0wx3ZuZPpcY551yvl/uGaFAarHluhNLyC4I+hQchkIYjunFWySOiB4llp6N4qJ2B cTbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=qZ3tvI5oDWPTLHHf4c5x4xWhTa3U1KKLUR/u0aExshc=; b=mVCQkB7Brb3c3P20wcxmKIy0p/LVCSe7Zw0AGXheFWIK2Pz9Az1RDQV/yLyjC7/kYU vAS+Ty50MaH9vGlutuEIdwlk+b6W76gJAexzLB29HeZvWAOw0TtoQM588QWeTmHqE32O 8czvcTSFD6nAXK79SxkuP64o8LEG1nV8ovlgnfE09CnIXMJ5FZBZfCScEpCPtrwDAE6J AY5960tBWEOhRzJPHkfUfJz93y+jP6LibIpvyPQ6D5r8K2QwzCQe+O+qGj7Qdn+943KQ K7cLiLDP0oduV1Jwu5KGLXgGGNCv16Y05PiePohqII6Eiuge7PBjowf4OMhr1yUB/UDw 0iHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531YLNXuzDn8kbcPTapjnloFy+zoRDV7u51qvuNI66sA7Tmo0I95 n9mBqEncbxbQzVSzCsgwOnDthwPiZAvozNY0fBM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwyuWN6uiNwuKvOhf1Ysaj0KzMpMhxDAfLNOIAgGRwrDJoqShgF1wS8wAuoXzn+/uBRZXsZqw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:decf:: with SMTP id i15mr13258268wrn.405.1612095794926; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 04:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.50] ([80.111.121.42]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r12sm22892372wrp.13.2021.01.31.04.23.14 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 31 Jan 2021 04:23:14 -0800 (PST) To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <202101301950.10UJoWeA456408@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20210130222854.GN4227@mcvoy.com> <20210130231119.GA33905@eureka.lemis.com> <20210130231750.GQ4227@mcvoy.com> <20210130233117.GR4568@mcvoy.com> <202101302337.10UNbTMU465941@darkstar.fourwinds.com> <20210130235459.GR4227@mcvoy.com> From: Dermot Tynan Message-ID: <7a74fe75-6063-2c4c-cabb-d9dacf7e271f@kalopa.com> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 12:23:13 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20210130235459.GR4227@mcvoy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB Subject: Re: [TUHS] [SPAM] Re: FreeBSD behind the times? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 30/01/2021 23:54, Larry McVoy wrote: > You like FreeBSD, cool, it's fine. Nobody will ever know because nobody > is going to put up with a 1990's era installer. Nobody. It's 2020, shit > is just supposed to work, it's supposed do so in a graphical environment > let works with or without a mouse. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't > going to get any market share. It's "horses for courses". I run a mix of FreeBSD and Linux servers. As they're headless, the last thing I want is X on there. Ideally, I'd strip out the automount crap as well, to say nothing of the horror that is systemd. But yeah, those people with desktops want a simple GUI install and they want their USB stick to appear as a "folder". I run Ubuntu on my desktop for vaguely those reasons (and Dropbox!). I think the biggest threat to FreeBSD is docker/k8s and things like libvirt. Unfortunately, most open source (and closed source) software runs de facto on Linux (if it runs on Unix-esque systems), and the ports to FreeBSD are slow in coming. Last time I looked, there was no native Dropbox client. As a server though, if you don't need to use it as a hypervisor or a container system, it gets my vote. But again it's down to preference. Linux has the breeze now, and is streaking ahead of the *BSDs. Sad, but true.                         - Der -- Dermot Tynan dtynan@kalopa.com