From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 16499 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2023 22:23:49 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Jan 2023 22:23:49 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC117424C4; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 08:23:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.194]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D122424BE for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 08:23:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from makerlispvps ([74.208.29.250]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MeyiN-1p2uul3OGn-00OVAv for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 23:23:02 +0100 Received: from [192.168.234.128] (unknown [172.58.76.151]) by makerlispvps (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0575F8877B for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:23:01 +0000 (UTC) To: tuhs@tuhs.org References: <202301180943.30I9hrOw030485@freefriends.org> <202301181513.30IFDDUJ015224@freefriends.org> <20230118151446.GD2964@mcvoy.com> <202301190802.30J82KwQ025718@freefriends.org> <20230119150434.GA626@mcvoy.com> From: Luther Johnson Message-ID: <7cc2b7c5-5e98-9299-4fa8-a477fbf4ff77@makerlisp.com> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 15:23:00 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:kVtHwLGpgS4LwBspJwF9YL2xyWDvZE6QzPEhPJPKoP5uTgyGzeS WU1uL5Hh4U0FPHGLnmuYSgQx61UTm4CYQE54SJ/xsnqBtDysFrkYMMffBHAP3gfyflIU5dC qb/zNg6u1nJ9Zzx82mUTLU7TdLPmn/LteAfTe8Eq37koQxYd9EOL2a1uugFJzQ6E9lHcUvb t2JK5cWE3fGaBSVT0RCRw== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:6dRUzKDGoSg=;5/o3QpW7EdoS6FvoZm+yMYRaDxJ 62K/O3ADC1xBqPofJpNFbKBSVH7qH63BPQcq1Emgoen+L2QUAdW2w1HW1jF/ifjUYXztyCUrB ayhvrWCx3Vy0j3kqXWf2U/PK7ArRYOQTkjEq6RIIvKWuKxZV1EVH+RWWqfGdmfgYL6RW7+ce1 KgZ1uPlVUtdu76h9Y/D8IwBUV1k7ECxmG5nUY6yxkTMYbk2vdhua1Bu01HKH8QMmID5JmpDEd TN3kWlDtVbkeKxmpgrpHhqAjFWleURq18SKquMBDZtJwvUPylOG4W9+BBmLqxX21SoDBudMlk YOb/NN/2LRMVVoLY9VmWUgyujsjtRHixrb2LbYEYNHS4zy9sdaJJ9nGVW16sRrOQSgNbJ29nY OIm9eA2IP5Ir1ryLInXSWZMEU6n5rpJgbJY9BOxjg6qjhJcIe7EA7EZLeds3Pt/b23JCvw5cp RcvIlKbWYcpjWf0gcDnz/q0UBUh0T/Gaw8Y7xlQAvG879snV5oA7h95JUxmVyIv7p7ju6FVns U0CZ8PRpDV2cErrF63ghLoNh3ojJ+rG1UaIMlrsTO8m++Zk0fPGauNJASSDMC0XH9eKaadhqI Ei7XXp1lBTV+LIgm2nbXRDKx4+bE5NaR/Q+9bppnk/L9lO8y9nMxLl8Bi736qhWwqCc5zB0q0 6yneJE9JjQPxXx+1/lG1qYC2426fKz9XuoWZSS1TUg== Message-ID-Hash: VQGFIF7CHGKUNRH7XKWO73NJ2AGYQ4PP X-Message-ID-Hash: VQGFIF7CHGKUNRH7XKWO73NJ2AGYQ4PP X-MailFrom: luther@makerlisp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: The era of general purpose computing (Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Computers that are not smart phone-like are definitely on the endangered species list. You know, the kind on a desk, with a keyboard ... On 01/19/2023 01:01 PM, Bakul Shah wrote: > On Jan 19, 2023, at 9:19 AM, Adam Thornton wrote: >> The era of general-purpose computers won't end. > What I meant is it will likely become much more > niche just like mainframe programming. > > What % of people running Chromebooks, Android or IOS > do any real programming on it? Even for laptops and > desktops that % is quite low. Most people run just a > few apps. > >> The problem is that a great many single-purpose items are (and increasingly will be), for reasons of scale/developer availability/familiarity, general-purpose computers that come from the factory supposedly packaged to do only one thing. >> >> But all of them will have brains that will let them do arbitrary things. Some of these things will be done at the behest of the organizations controlling the society where the developers come from. Some of them will be done at the behest of transnational organized crime rings. Some will be done by enthusiasts. But I don't think we are too far from the world where you can't trust your toothbrush unless you carved it yourself from a stick with a knife that's been in your family for generations. >> >> But really, this is all just "Reflections on Trusting Trust," which was, what, 1984? > What I was reflecting on is there may not be a real > need for virtual memory if you are running just a few > apps and memory is plentiful! > > We have relied on virtual memory for creating protection > boundaries but that has not been enough. In Unix a child > process has all the privileges a parent has. If instead the > permission model for a new process is to permit only what > it needs[1], including memory, you can get rid of containers > (such as docker) and jails (as on FreeBSD). What is more, > this can be done without virtual memory. Further, the same > model can be extended to distributed computing. If this > becomes reality, why wouldn't vendors go for that? > > So yes, the hardware will be capable of general purpose > computing (Turing complete?) but will vendors allow access > to it? > > [1] As Capability folks say, this is the Principle Of > Least Authority or POLA. > > >