From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 29779 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2023 18:33:48 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Jan 2023 18:33:48 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7846542531; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 04:33:25 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1674239605; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=4uoAE8qaeLcVX28E4nkpHg36BOqCeTebcdeduIgBoPk=; b=ydGo4EPcNR5h21x/Ety7krvJEQjpRav2a3yv9HkMiPfbQCFUFUdLu/HMMksx1r+MgiNtM2 d+lnYs1dWWRc9pbSXUf0SG6stiWB6su/irb3a7Xy5piHQF5h3oOJcKR67QISuCT9r86u/C T78SZfYQna/ICB5uMawnHhLaoBngTFg= Received: from mail-4319.protonmail.ch (mail-4319.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.19]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06A5E4252D for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 04:33:19 +1000 (AEST) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:33:08 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1674239596; x=1674498796; bh=4uoAE8qaeLcVX28E4nkpHg36BOqCeTebcdeduIgBoPk=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=jszwawSqPLZne3MBgHQTVV1/72DZ6+8UzBI7amD8NGky549GhQyjdlIu7FnjBWB2k YhcAKr3OcmeHHudPbJviZJKxkzvBZexyrMQ+u8xFKBZSZL193DM2TFf2q84SeDjcHb OeeheIf2TK4jILLsjs9ThTjCL/gN6HotTTZ3QFJ7EdzdhXFJlAffrpD4/j+LBmQ7eC 9myjM1UUgOgibPkTrRbGq4OSPXDenQaAqPQYpNfE2G9db+YWxfTQFFYU3S1fp9lPt3 5H69xGcKFegqYg4JFcQSRtJzd4Zeqbu7NE80mRrEfb0xeoYuZ850PswMyaoCrpDqb+ IiMIt5xCHUmDA== To: "G. Branden Robinson" Message-ID: <7dTdnEyfaNQ0Y49oagOmNC03a7ADfm3hABDQhGOfAkjcGU3ceKZKZ-LeTX3PvbSE8OeOgf4nKO_iiK03BzjXenDDqlBYcRXLzrVIcxP6F00=@protonmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20230120182114.mv3k3zkh3e32xtnj@illithid> References: <20230120182114.mv3k3zkh3e32xtnj@illithid> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: BWUDHRJ7GQXZYU4WP7BJAEBLV673BUSF X-Message-ID-Hash: BWUDHRJ7GQXZYU4WP7BJAEBLV673BUSF X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: The death of general purpose computers, was - AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via TUHS Reply-To: segaloco > I have heard that firmware blobs are just as ubiquitous and hard to > eliminate on RISC-V boards as they are everywhere else. This is a real > problem for establishing a trusted computed base. It seems everybody > who makes support chips is arc-welded to unverifiable code. We'll have > to replace the stuff ourselves, slowly and painfully. I submit that the > only way to win that battle in the long run is to copyleft it; otherwise > the community's work will simply wind up re-closed, with new features to > sell the board, and new backdoors thanks to sloppy bugs and friendly > handshakes from friendly guys in suits. So in this case specifically the board I'm tinkering with is the VisionFive= running a dual U74. There is a bootrom that does DRAM training and some o= ther aspects and then spits out into OpenSBI which loads u-boot off a secon= dary device. I've been tinkering with the lowest levels of startup and it = sounds like I can control almost everything, there is a reset vector into t= he QSPI flash (XiP) that kicks off that boot, contains the thing that loads= the DDR init, then OpenSBI, etc. I *think* it is the first instruction th= e CPU itself hits, not certain, but I think any "stuff" that happens is sub= systems doing their own firmware stuff which I can't go any deeper than con= trolling the flash payload. There is also a button that, when held on startup, redirects to a ROM conta= ining a dirt simple prompt allowing XMODEM-CRC (almost...) transmission of = payloads and then an arbitrary branch anywhere in at least the first 32 bit= s of address space. Anywho, this is just more topic drift so I'll end the chain of my musings h= ere, but if there's any spinoff discussions don't hesitate to just chat it = up without the TUHS Cc :P Long story short though is I'm hopeful RISC-V is headed in the correct dire= ction with openness and such, so I'm putting more of my eggs in that basket= as time goes on. - Matt G.