Hello all, I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming). Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3. Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome! -Seth -- Seth Morabito Poulsbo, WA web@loomcom.com
This looks like some really nice work. I used a BLIT at UW Madison and loved it, it was way more useful than a terminal and way less fuss than a full blown windowing system. Felt like the knee of the curve. All of that over a serial line, that's impressive. I dunno, but I bet that Rob trys it out just for a trip down memory lane. On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 04:25:50PM -0700, Seth Morabito wrote: > Hello all, > > I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming). > > Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html > > The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk > > Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3. > > Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome! > > -Seth > -- > Seth Morabito > Poulsbo, WA > web@loomcom.com -- --- Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2094 bytes --] Some time ago, Greg Christie, then at Apple, booted up a 3B2 with a 5620 attached and invited me to play with it. Now _that_ was a trip down memory lane. (The 3B2, maybe not so much.) It was a reward for an interview with him, recorded on video, about the early days of 2d graphics as I saw them, for a course for employees. But being Apple, even though it was 0% proprietary, it will never see the light of day. -rob On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:53 AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > This looks like some really nice work. I used a BLIT at UW Madison > and loved it, it was way more useful than a terminal and way less > fuss than a full blown windowing system. Felt like the knee of the > curve. All of that over a serial line, that's impressive. > > I dunno, but I bet that Rob trys it out just for a trip down memory > lane. > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 04:25:50PM -0700, Seth Morabito wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I > wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 firmware. > It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting directly to a > physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux or macOS with X11 > or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows version if you're a > Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows user, but I am not at all > knowledgeable about Windows programming). > > > > Full details are available here: > https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html > > > > The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk > > > > Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking down > the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank Mike > Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring me to get > it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3. > > > > Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome! > > > > -Seth > > -- > > Seth Morabito > > Poulsbo, WA > > web@loomcom.com > > -- > --- > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing > http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3273 bytes --]
I had a 3B1, very different machine, 68K based, I liked it. The 3B2 was, well, if I'm being nice, an also ran. It was a thing but it was never the thing. I've run at least one of the lower end models, it worked but it was behind the other systems I ran. Cool that they did it, but like many attempts, not enough ahead. I have very fond memories of the BLIT terminals, I just liked how much you got out of a serial cable. Way, way more than anyone else imagined. On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:58:38AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote: > Some time ago, Greg Christie, then at Apple, booted up a 3B2 with a 5620 > attached and invited me to play with it. Now _that_ was a trip down memory > lane. (The 3B2, maybe not so much.) > > It was a reward for an interview with him, recorded on video, about the > early days of 2d graphics as I saw them, for a course for employees. But > being Apple, even though it was 0% proprietary, it will never see the light > of day. > > -rob > > > On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:53 AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > > > This looks like some really nice work. I used a BLIT at UW Madison > > and loved it, it was way more useful than a terminal and way less > > fuss than a full blown windowing system. Felt like the knee of the > > curve. All of that over a serial line, that's impressive. > > > > I dunno, but I bet that Rob trys it out just for a trip down memory > > lane. > > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 04:25:50PM -0700, Seth Morabito wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > > > I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I > > wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 firmware. > > It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting directly to a > > physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux or macOS with X11 > > or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows version if you're a > > Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows user, but I am not at all > > knowledgeable about Windows programming). > > > > > > Full details are available here: > > https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html > > > > > > The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk > > > > > > Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking down > > the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank Mike > > Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring me to get > > it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3. > > > > > > Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome! > > > > > > -Seth > > > -- > > > Seth Morabito > > > Poulsbo, WA > > > web@loomcom.com > > > > -- > > --- > > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing > > http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat > > -- --- Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 514 bytes --] On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:12 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > I have very fond memories of the BLIT terminals, I just liked how much > you got out of a serial cable. Way, way more than anyone else imagined. > I think that is a good way to express it. The client/server paradigm is really well considered - what belongs on each side. of the link such that the data that actually had to be sent between them is minimum. It becomes a solid demonstration of what you need to get a job done. ᐧ [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1278 bytes --]
On 2022-09-12 22:12, Larry McVoy wrote: > I had a 3B1, very different machine, 68K based, I liked it. A 3B1 machine (named Shalosh B. Eckhad, those being transliterations of the Hebrew words for "three" and "one", respectively) is listed as coauthor of many papers by mathematician Doron Zeilberger. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339615667_Shalosh_B_Ekhad_a_computer_credit_for_mathematicians https://sites.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/ekhad/papers.html Paul Guertin
I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all historical terms to emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A. Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_1974.jpg -- josephholsten.com On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote: > Hello all, > > I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I > wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 > firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting > directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux > or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows > version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows > user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming). > > Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html > > The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk > > Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking > down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank > Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring > me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3. > > Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome! > > -Seth > -- > Seth Morabito > Poulsbo, WA > web@loomcom.com
Have you ever run a BLIT? It's basically a windowing system over a serial line except the protocol is really smart, it knows that the terminal knows how to do a bunch of stuff. In my opinion, the best serial line terminal ever built. On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:29:39PM -0700, Joseph Holsten wrote: > I was wondering why you???d pick this term of all historical terms to emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A. > > Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_1974.jpg > > -- > josephholsten.com > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I > > wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 > > firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting > > directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux > > or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows > > version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows > > user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming). > > > > Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html > > > > The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk > > > > Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking > > down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank > > Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring > > me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3. > > > > Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome! > > > > -Seth > > -- > > Seth Morabito > > Poulsbo, WA > > web@loomcom.com -- --- Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 952 bytes --] I wish we had found a consistent way to manage the client/server (or as we called it, terminal/host) separation. Every program did it a different way, with varying levels of success. We didn't push hard enough on it at the time, but Plan 9 came about in part by thinking about the problem, and to be honest so did JavaScript. -rob On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:01 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:12 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > >> I have very fond memories of the BLIT terminals, I just liked how much >> you got out of a serial cable. Way, way more than anyone else imagined. >> > > I think that is a good way to express it. The client/server paradigm is > really well considered - what belongs on each side. of the link such that > the data that actually had to be sent between them is minimum. It becomes > a solid demonstration of what you need to get a job done. > ᐧ > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2263 bytes --]
Huh, I thought it was less ad-hoc than that. I never had access to the source but you could look at what you could do on that terminal and you just knew that people had put some thought into making high level commands that knew what the terminal could do. It was a cool idea. Like anything, you look back and see what you could have done better, but it was still a cool idea, a big leap ahead from just a dumb terminal. On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 10:23:31AM +1000, Rob Pike wrote: > I wish we had found a consistent way to manage the client/server (or as we > called it, terminal/host) separation. Every program did it a different way, > with varying levels of success. We didn't push hard enough on it at the > time, but Plan 9 came about in part by thinking about the problem, and to > be honest so did JavaScript. > > -rob > > > On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 11:01 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022 at 10:12 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > > > >> I have very fond memories of the BLIT terminals, I just liked how much > >> you got out of a serial cable. Way, way more than anyone else imagined. > >> > > > > I think that is a good way to express it. The client/server paradigm is > > really well considered - what belongs on each side. of the link such that > > the data that actually had to be sent between them is minimum. It becomes > > a solid demonstration of what you need to get a job done. > > ??? > > -- --- Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 101 bytes --] > , and to be honest so did JavaScript. > And also, earlier, display PostScript and NeWS, right? > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 741 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 299 bytes --] On Tue, 13 Sep 2022, Joseph Holsten wrote: > I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all historical terms to > emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A. Man, I love the Googie stylings of the ADM-3A. I'd kill to have one or two of them just for that. -uso.
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1759 bytes --] Yes, Yes! Go for the ADM-3a with the goofy uppercase fonts. Joe McGuckin ViaNet Communications joe@via.net 650-207-0372 cell 650-213-1302 office 650-969-2124 fax > On Sep 13, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Joseph Holsten <joseph@josephholsten.com> wrote: > > I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all historical terms to emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A. > > Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_1974.jpg > > -- > josephholsten.com > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I >> wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 >> firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting >> directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux >> or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows >> version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows >> user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming). >> >> Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html >> >> The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk >> >> Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking >> down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank >> Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring >> me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3. >> >> Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome! >> >> -Seth >> -- >> Seth Morabito >> Poulsbo, WA >> web@loomcom.com [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4019 bytes --]
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Joseph Holsten wrote:
> I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all historical terms to
> emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A.
I have an ADM-3a in storage, and it is indeed a very fun terminal! In some senses, though, it's "yet another 80x24 terminal" (albeit, a very cool looking one). The 5620 feels a little more unique to me, and I couldn't let it go un-emulated.
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web@loomcom.com
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 710 bytes --] On Tue, Sep 13, 2022, 9:10 PM Seth Morabito <web@loomcom.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 13, 2022, at 3:29 PM, Joseph Holsten wrote: > > I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all historical terms to > > emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A. > > I have an ADM-3a in storage, and it is indeed a very fun terminal! In some > senses, though, it's "yet another 80x24 terminal" (albeit, a very cool > looking one). The 5620 feels a little more unique to me, and I couldn't let > it go un-emulated. > 5620 is Hella cool. But the ADM-3A was the quintessential boring terminal... Warner > -Seth > -- > Seth Morabito > Poulsbo, WA > web@loomcom.com > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1373 bytes --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2625 bytes --] I haven’t. I’m not sure how much it differs from the acme experience, but I still miss them especially the terminal-as-editor. I hear some of the same people may have been involved. Which is why I can’t possibly make time for the adm-3a, that never ending hobby project is already claimed by my desire for acme with syntax highlighting. /me goes back to working in a :term inside neovim inside tmux inside a mosh session inside a glorified vt100 emulator, while absolutely not crying about applications being ignorant of presentation layer for “portability” -- josephholsten.com > On Sep 13, 2022, at 16:35, Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > > Have you ever run a BLIT? It's basically a windowing system over a > serial line except the protocol is really smart, it knows that the > terminal knows how to do a bunch of stuff. > > In my opinion, the best serial line terminal ever built. > >> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:29:39PM -0700, Joseph Holsten wrote: >> I was wondering why you???d pick this term of all historical terms to emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A. >> >> Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_1974.jpg >> >> -- >> josephholsten.com >> >>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote: >>> Hello all, >>> >>> I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I >>> wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 >>> firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting >>> directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux >>> or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows >>> version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows >>> user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming). >>> >>> Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html >>> >>> The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk >>> >>> Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking >>> down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank >>> Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring >>> me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3. >>> >>> Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome! >>> >>> -Seth >>> -- >>> Seth Morabito >>> Poulsbo, WA >>> web@loomcom.com > > -- > --- > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 6417 bytes --]
Joseph Holsten wrote: > I was wondering why you’d pick this term of all historical terms to > emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A. Please do! There is a suite of terminal emulators that try to use the original font and render the display somewhat pleasingly. It includes VT05, VT50, VT52, DataPoint 3300, and a few more. Arguably it's mostly eye candy, but I'd say it adds a little retro flair to the experience. In a similar vein, I have written terminal simulators that run the original VT100 and VT52 firmware and try to render the video output in real time. > Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad: > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_1974.jpg I have long maintained we need a good teletype emulator... nay, simulator. Think physics engine.
On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 8:55 PM Joseph Holsten <joseph@josephholsten.com> wrote: > > I haven’t. I’m not sure how much it differs from the acme experience, but I still miss them especially the terminal-as-editor. I hear some of the same people may have been involved. > > Which is why I can’t possibly make time for the adm-3a, that never ending hobby project is already claimed by my desire for acme with syntax highlighting. > > /me goes back to working in a :term inside neovim inside tmux inside a mosh session inside a glorified vt100 emulator, while absolutely not crying about applications being ignorant of presentation layer for “portability” https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/ > -- > josephholsten.com > > > On Sep 13, 2022, at 16:35, Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > > Have you ever run a BLIT? It's basically a windowing system over a > serial line except the protocol is really smart, it knows that the > terminal knows how to do a bunch of stuff. > > In my opinion, the best serial line terminal ever built. > > On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:29:39PM -0700, Joseph Holsten wrote: > > I was wondering why you???d pick this term of all historical terms to emulate. Now I have a terrible urge to try my hand at an ADM-3A. > > > Which just reminds me of this teletype 33 ad: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teletype_Model_33_Terminal_June_1974.jpg > > > -- > > josephholsten.com > > > On Mon, Sep 12, 2022, at 16:25, Seth Morabito wrote: > > Hello all, > > > I've recently been improving the AT&T/Teletype DMD 5620 simulator I > > wrote a few years ago. It can now run either the 8;7;3 or 8;7;5 > > firmware. It also now supports executing a local shell or connecting > > directly to a physical or virtual tty device. It runs natively on Linux > > or macOS with X11 or Wayland, but I would love help creating a Windows > > version if you're a Windows programmer (I am an occasional Windows > > user, but I am not at all knowledgeable about Windows programming). > > > Full details are available here: https://loomcom.com/3b2/dmd5620_emulator.html > > > The source code is here: https://github.com/sethm/dmd_gtk > > > Many thanks go to my friend Sark (@crtdude on Twitter) for tracking > > down the 8;7;3 firmware and dumping it for me. I'd also like to thank > > Mike Haertel for helping find bugs, providing feedback, and inspiring > > me to get it working with Research Unix in addition to SVR3. > > > Feedback, bug reports, and pull requests are all welcome! > > > -Seth > > -- > > Seth Morabito > > Poulsbo, WA > > web@loomcom.com > > > -- > --- > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat