From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F3EB28B16 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:37:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271E342872; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 01:37:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net (relay8-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:dc4:8::228]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C79274285F for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2024 01:37:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AABE91BF210 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2024 15:37:20 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bitsavers.org; s=gm1; t=1720021041; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jClTgu25ajlQGO32p+wdAs3MIGykUSQVva3wpsSx3DM=; b=AgnAJt/SxNRdQqlrMlxkBgu/dqM2gIeIwz07Q7y5lm3+bt49fM9SY7XQ993WC30Svi7BBX vWaIDp3FjvolOW7K7mH7TKKXTvNOlKXiJejqVIpHQgKOpiK2EfIhnQFFUyNRCSzWLMoaeG XDsN1W5gSnqIzStPwefANOOEbZ9fWqAyQQj6iRBfU7Jh49b9WYIY33UIKuI5Ajb5fsyWuf fTAxGRiSKszU1oLZW41x3xoVFIGFt++E5XDWxM8gBpQni+Ucd44IyB6N3F/RT1SpBIU/Kv Td8Sit5ZNoUGw/oGwdNRjkh6rdPD0TIeKuhumuYHISJvSsIIW3m5ZGybJYMAmw== To: tuhs@tuhs.org References: <93529CA0-7097-443C-999B-384BE6BD5683@canb.auug.org.au> From: Al Kossow Message-ID: <805f0ceb-c327-aaad-a13f-cfb3aab5c528@bitsavers.org> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 08:37:18 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-GND-Sasl: aek@bitsavers.org Message-ID-Hash: WPNOIWH2SRP37ANUVXOW6APDAVMAGPHJ X-Message-ID-Hash: WPNOIWH2SRP37ANUVXOW6APDAVMAGPHJ X-MailFrom: aek@bitsavers.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Anyone ever heard of teaching a case study of Initial Unix? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 7/3/24 8:17 AM, Vincenzo Nicosia wrote: > I think it would be terribly misleading to teach young CS students that > software projects should be managed "as Unix v6 came to life". They will > never, ever find anything even close to that environment in a > professional workplace. We should tell them that some of the most > beautiful software projects ever crafted by humans did not come out of > the "professionalism churches" that the overwhelming majority of > software companies are nowadays, based on the blind application of > "mainstream" software development and project management principles, > according to which they (the CS majors) are just "as fungible and > replaceable as a chair, or a wallpaper". That would be only true and > fair to tell them. > I was inside Apple for a LONG time, and if you were going to write a horror story case history, the Mac OS would be it, right through the death march that occurred during the OS X transition (bringing this around to Unix history). You don't hear anything about the people past the "Magnificent Seven" of the original Mac team. There were many and many people were burned out in the process, including almost all of the original team one way or another.