From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 29124 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2023 23:31:37 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Mar 2023 23:31:37 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7F34132A; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 09:31:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E509041270 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 09:31:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: from makerlispvps ([74.208.29.250]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus002 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lru3s-1qYNsX424E-013eW0 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 00:31:27 +0100 Received: from [192.168.234.128] (unknown [172.58.76.69]) by makerlispvps (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 687B2890A1 for ; Thu, 9 Mar 2023 23:31:27 +0000 (UTC) To: tuhs@tuhs.org References: <20230309230130.q4I-f%steffen@sdaoden.eu> From: Luther Johnson Message-ID: <849f8da7-8df2-619c-6080-d40d0ef6fc57@makerlisp.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2023 16:31:25 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8D955B65430BB19B9A900B0B" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:y/D4i5itKpJxaTOZLL+mdfqxWQZ+DtyP+HelTTJjJWw0EOIDZ8F cv4jeKSWmweCeF4/iKXfHqk4aGvL7PuFdjwfVo94dEtEIKKItMKjMaV2ZWsgJgxwxwHNphP kjbImrq4C5wn8f1oxam6ogzqbtUn3ZyZtAmb+1EcWzMNl5FRSwH9IlBnSlrKzArDzeeij4/ qbc5NpvYpS+oII9HnBMAQ== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:vRiJVPZ3xn8=;tdbRuRBi5jLBwayEwg8UcKmd+3y NYkxmcNF6bA4iwbVdTK8om91q+PJkWldk5KGGgeeHcNsP5Smlf6+cQEzOsG9eX6FITZZ3dxm8 lm6cIyBNf7+Ux6zIalafmP4OkQ2B65CCChsuN4kytk7lfY+b9vRWLosYVUDb9eurP8/zhO56D 6WA667gyD+KZnXgEncDrmWzPRtMdXk/gFqadPTU8qQ6nqHMAIKUPyXxr6jsDzTcs+QgZN8zm4 86ANOUrb6bZAqK8yqLWvP8ayR85d+gIOoE9fH9cQfVF1Iq35yw6N3R/D/15pnlfgH9MpGE+eb VmzcREFJCu1T1adJ9aa/HS7c/4hAdz1C7qgERdBIX2IIJ0fP6VAw+6Mrzlm6WjbIxLEdRHVnT bLY8B4G+FyTTQ6oIfUxUoMhWhG+l47YiJ2OFa/CnjtblAGBmxsLvA0tzoE6V4GsaKYTNLnjUW SJ8pBJZdI0Bd8KHesyTE5Cusx2/nHu3kH23HVBA7HrxcfQ/2lREPBaG+oQGJhvbx14DpryUJq VyHCxLWEcqeHQkqr81tUHnYe4KWZEJvkGkTKmwN3x2D135yQSx232I+HMHbHZ41ES22Mozr3q awty/4U+itAj1y26uF8S1xmiCbshtQBPNBaswhrg1Rt/mKKlGFdEJsDVQC0UWLKdOj6dqynp8 MnwivJ/1EJOdOIP7A5gxR1BfU//V4MwQhp9h9aqSjQ== Message-ID-Hash: H2STZUY362RBW3I6PSLVGCIQSTNSH2R4 X-Message-ID-Hash: H2STZUY362RBW3I6PSLVGCIQSTNSH2R4 X-MailFrom: luther@makerlisp.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: I can't drive 55: "GOTO considered harmful" 55th anniversary List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8D955B65430BB19B9A900B0B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree, unless I use setjmp/longjmp for that. Besides error recovery, there are occasionally other times when we want to locally "return" to a common state and start "from the top" again. I find such uses very clear in their intent, and if commented well, not hard to follow at all - as long as there is not more than one "top" :) On 03/09/2023 04:21 PM, Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 4:18 PM segaloco via TUHS > wrote: > > GOTO is one of those paradoxical things where I would only trust > the most sophisticated engineer to know when it's acceptable to > use a GOTO but on the flip side would be suspicious of anyone > claiming to be an engineer that uses any amount of GOTOs... > > Were any of the various GOTOs in languages ever meant to be any > more than providing the same level of control that branch > statements in assembly do? Was there ever some vision anyone's > aware of concerning a sophisticated, dependable use of GOTOs? > Since my first days poking around learning C GOTO has been > mentally filed away as an assembly vestige for folks in > transition, not a dependable construct in its own right. Any > alternative camps out there? > > > > In C I use it all the time to do goto err for common error recovery > because C doesn't have anything better. > > Warner > > - Matt G. > > ------- Original Message ------- > On Thursday, March 9th, 2023 at 3:01 PM, Steffen Nurpmeso > > wrote: > > > > I wonder if Pink Floyd's Summer68 maybe refers to this. > > Other than that i am addicted and could not live without it. > > The other (terrible) song is from 1984 (east southern US). > > > > --steffen > > | > > |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, > > |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one > > |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off > > |(By Robert Gernhardt) > --------------8D955B65430BB19B9A900B0B Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQogIDxoZWFkPg0KICAgIDxtZXRhIGNvbnRlbnQ9InRleHQvaHRtbDsgY2hhcnNldD11 dGYtOCIgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIj4NCiAgPC9oZWFkPg0KICA8Ym9keSBiZ2Nv bG9yPSIjRkZGRkZGIiB0ZXh0PSIjMDAwMDAwIj4NCiAgICA8cD5JIGFncmVlLCB1bmxlc3MgSSB1 c2Ugc2V0am1wL2xvbmdqbXAgZm9yIHRoYXQuIEJlc2lkZXMgZXJyb3INCiAgICAgIHJlY292ZXJ5 LCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgb2NjYXNpb25hbGx5IG90aGVyIHRpbWVzIHdoZW4gd2Ugd2FudCB0bw0KICAg ICAgbG9jYWxseSAicmV0dXJuIiB0byBhIGNvbW1vbiBzdGF0ZSBhbmQgc3RhcnQgImZyb20gdGhl IHRvcCIgYWdhaW4uDQogICAgICBJIGZpbmQgc3VjaCB1c2VzIHZlcnkgY2xlYXIgaW4gdGhlaXIg aW50ZW50LCBhbmQgaWYgY29tbWVudGVkDQogICAgICB3ZWxsLCBub3QgaGFyZCB0byBmb2xsb3cg YXQgYWxsIC0gYXMgbG9uZyBhcyB0aGVyZSBpcyBub3QgbW9yZQ0KICAgICAgdGhhbiBvbmUgInRv cCIgOik8YnI+DQogICAgPC9wPg0KICAgIDxkaXYgY2xhc3M9Im1vei1jaXRlLXByZWZpeCI+T24g MDMvMDkvMjAyMyAwNDoyMSBQTSwgV2FybmVyIExvc2gNCiAgICAgIHdyb3RlOjxicj4NCiAgICA8 L2Rpdj4NCiAgICA8YmxvY2txdW90ZQ0KY2l0ZT0ibWlkOkNBTkNaZGZwal91QmtIPWhpaDJLditZ d1RRLWVIT3pxZ0RVSl8rUDhhNGNoT0h1PWNMUUBtYWlsLmdtYWlsLmNvbSINCiAgICAgIHR5cGU9 ImNpdGUiPg0KICAgICAgPGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPg0KICAgICAgICA8ZGl2Pjxicj4NCiAgICAg ICAgICA8YnI+DQogICAgICAgICAgPGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfcXVvdGUiPg0KICAgICAgICAg ICAgPGRpdiBkaXI9Imx0ciIgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX2F0dHIiPk9uIFRodSwgTWFyIDksIDIwMjMs IDQ6MTgNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgUE0gc2VnYWxvY28gdmlhIFRVSFMgJmx0OzxhIG1vei1kby1u b3Qtc2VuZD0idHJ1ZSINCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86dHVoc0B0dWhzLm9y ZyI+dHVoc0B0dWhzLm9yZzwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjxicj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvZGl2Pg0K ICAgICAgICAgICAgPGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX3F1b3RlIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2lu OjAgMCAwDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIC44ZXg7Ym9yZGVyLWxlZnQ6MXB4ICNjY2Mgc29saWQ7cGFk ZGluZy1sZWZ0OjFleCI+R09UTyBpcw0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICBvbmUgb2YgdGhvc2UgcGFyYWRv eGljYWwgdGhpbmdzIHdoZXJlIEkgd291bGQgb25seSB0cnVzdA0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICB0aGUg bW9zdCBzb3BoaXN0aWNhdGVkIGVuZ2luZWVyIHRvIGtub3cgd2hlbiBpdCdzDQogICAgICAgICAg ICAgIGFjY2VwdGFibGUgdG8gdXNlIGEgR09UTyBidXQgb24gdGhlIGZsaXAgc2lkZSB3b3VsZCBi ZQ0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICBzdXNwaWNpb3VzIG9mIGFueW9uZSBjbGFpbWluZyB0byBiZSBhbiBl bmdpbmVlciB0aGF0IHVzZXMNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgYW55IGFtb3VudCBvZiBHT1RPcy4uLjxi cj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPGJyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICBXZXJlIGFueSBvZiB0aGUgdmFy aW91cyBHT1RPcyBpbiBsYW5ndWFnZXMgZXZlciBtZWFudCB0bw0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICBiZSBh bnkgbW9yZSB0aGFuIHByb3ZpZGluZyB0aGUgc2FtZSBsZXZlbCBvZiBjb250cm9sIHRoYXQNCiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgYnJhbmNoIHN0YXRlbWVudHMgaW4gYXNzZW1ibHkgZG8/wqAgV2FzIHRoZXJl IGV2ZXIgc29tZQ0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICB2aXNpb24gYW55b25lJ3MgYXdhcmUgb2YgY29uY2Vy bmluZyBhIHNvcGhpc3RpY2F0ZWQsDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIGRlcGVuZGFibGUgdXNlIG9mIEdP VE9zP8KgIFNpbmNlIG15IGZpcnN0IGRheXMgcG9raW5nDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIGFyb3VuZCBs ZWFybmluZyBDIEdPVE8gaGFzIGJlZW4gbWVudGFsbHkgZmlsZWQgYXdheSBhcyBhbg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICBhc3NlbWJseSB2ZXN0aWdlIGZvciBmb2xrcyBpbiB0cmFuc2l0aW9uLCBub3QgYSBk ZXBlbmRhYmxlDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIGNvbnN0cnVjdCBpbiBpdHMgb3duIHJpZ2h0LsKgIEFu eSBhbHRlcm5hdGl2ZSBjYW1wcyBvdXQNCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgdGhlcmU/PGJyPg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgPC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPg0KICAgICAgICAgIDwvZGl2Pg0KICAgICAgICA8L2Rpdj4NCiAg ICAgICAgPGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxicj4NCiAgICAgICAgPC9kaXY+DQogICAgICAgIDxkaXYg ZGlyPSJhdXRvIj48YnI+DQogICAgICAgIDwvZGl2Pg0KICAgICAgICA8ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+ SW4gQyBJIHVzZSBpdCBhbGwgdGhlIHRpbWUgdG8gZG8gZ290byBlcnIgZm9yDQogICAgICAgICAg Y29tbW9uIGVycm9yIHJlY292ZXJ5IGJlY2F1c2UgQyBkb2Vzbid0IGhhdmUgYW55dGhpbmcgYmV0 dGVyLjwvZGl2Pg0KICAgICAgICA8ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+PGJyPg0KICAgICAgICA8L2Rpdj4N CiAgICAgICAgPGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPldhcm5lcsKgPC9kaXY+DQogICAgICAgIDxkaXYgZGly PSJhdXRvIj4NCiAgICAgICAgICA8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJnbWFpbF9xdW90ZSI+DQogICAgICAgICAg ICA8YmxvY2txdW90ZSBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfcXVvdGUiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW46MCAwIDANCiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgLjhleDtib3JkZXItbGVmdDoxcHggI2NjYyBzb2xpZDtwYWRkaW5nLWxlZnQ6 MWV4Ij4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNYXR0IEcuPGJyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8YnI+DQog ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0tLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS0tPGJyPg0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICBPbiBUaHVyc2RheSwgTWFyY2ggOXRoLCAyMDIzIGF0IDM6MDEgUE0sIFN0ZWZmZW4g TnVycG1lc28NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgJmx0OzxhIG1vei1kby1ub3Qtc2VuZD0idHJ1ZSINCiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86c3RlZmZlbkBzZGFvZGVuLmV1IiB0YXJnZXQ9Il9i bGFuayINCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICByZWw9Im5vcmVmZXJyZXIiPnN0ZWZmZW5Ac2Rhb2Rlbi5l dTwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjxicj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPGJyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICA8 YnI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICZndDsgSSB3b25kZXIgaWYgUGluayBGbG95ZCdzIFN1bW1lcjY4 IG1heWJlIHJlZmVycyB0bw0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICB0aGlzLjxicj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAg Jmd0OyBPdGhlciB0aGFuIHRoYXQgaSBhbSBhZGRpY3RlZCBhbmQgY291bGQgbm90IGxpdmUNCiAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgd2l0aG91dCBpdC48YnI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICZndDsgVGhlIG90aGVy ICh0ZXJyaWJsZSkgc29uZyBpcyBmcm9tIDE5ODQgKGVhc3Qgc291dGhlcm4NCiAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgVVMpLjxicj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgJmd0OyA8YnI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICZndDsg LS1zdGVmZmVuPGJyPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgICAmZ3Q7IHw8YnI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICZn dDsgfERlciBLcmFnZW5iYWVyLCBUaGUgbW9vbiBiZWFyLDxicj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgJmd0 OyB8ZGVyIGhvbHQgc2ljaCBtdW50ZXIgaGUgY2hlZXJmdWxseSBhbmQgb25lIGJ5IG9uZTxicj4N CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgJmd0OyB8ZWluZW4gbmFjaCBkZW0gYW5kZXJlbiBydW50ZXIgd2Eua3Mg aGltc2VsZiBvZmY8YnI+DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICZndDsgfChCeSBSb2JlcnQgR2VybmhhcmR0 KTxicj4NCiAgICAgICAgICAgIDwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICA8L2Rpdj4NCiAgICAg ICAgPC9kaXY+DQogICAgICA8L2Rpdj4NCiAgICA8L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+DQogICAgPGJyPg0KICA8 L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --------------8D955B65430BB19B9A900B0B--