* Help running 2.11 on Supnik 2.3d
@ 2000-04-12 12:05 lars brinkhoff
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From: lars brinkhoff @ 2000-04-12 12:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
I've tried running the image in /Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 on
Supnik's emulator version 2.3d, but the root filsystem seems
corrupted, with many binaries being unexecutable, bad block
error messages, etc.
Does anyone know how to successfully boot this image?
If this is the wrong place for this kind of question, or if
there's a FAQ on this, then please point me in the right
direction.
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200004122233.IAA06177 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Help running 2.11 on Supnik 2.3d
In-Reply-To: <85ln2jsewz.fsf at junk.nocrew.org> from lars brinkhoff at "Apr 12, 2000 2: 5:16 pm"
To: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:33:16 +1000 (EST)
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society)
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In article by lars brinkhoff:
> I've tried running the image in /Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 [from the PUPS
> Archive] on Supnik's emulator version 2.3d, but the root filsystem seems
> corrupted, with many binaries being unexecutable, bad block
> error messages, etc.
>
> Does anyone know how to successfully boot this image?
Hmm, if I get a chance I'll try it here. Has anybody used this image
successfully?
Warren
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Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <200004130322.UAA16968 at moe.2bsd.com>
To: lars at nocrew.org, pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Help running 2.11 on Supnik 2.3d
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Hi --
> From: lars brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
> I've tried running the image in /Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 on
> Supnik's emulator version 2.3d, but the root filsystem seems
> corrupted, with many binaries being unexecutable, bad block error messages,
> etc.
>
> Does anyone know how to successfully boot this image?
Yes. The problem is not with the images (although the whole "on rl02"
is a pain - you're far better off using the "xp" or large disk support
that Bob added).
> If this is the wrong place for this kind of question, or if
> there's a FAQ on this, then please point me in the right direction.
This is a very good place to ask this type of question.
And now the moment you've been waiting for: "the Answer" ;)
2.11BSD is *very* upset at having to run in 256kb of memory. since
the kernel plus buffer cache (and other data structures) can easily
exceed 200kb there is not enough memory left over to run a program.
Programs such as 'fsck' are fairly large split I/D programs and won't
fit in the remaining ~56kb or so.
The quick fix to the problem is adding the line:
set cpu 2048K
to the config file before running the simulator. That will give the
simulated PDP-11 2Mb of memory which is a real nice size. Oh, if
memory is a concern on the system then "set cpu 1024K" will work
well. Since there's no networking involved 1Mb will be quite adequate.
If you were using "P11" (the Begemot emulator) and had the full IP/TCP
stack, etc then the kernel+networking+buffers can reach close to 400Kb
and you might want to use 2Mb for the memory size.
You might also look into the latest version (2.5) of the Begemot
emulator. The two key advantages of P11 are: 1) a emulated DEQNA so
you can place the PDP11 on a network, 2) It keeps _good_ time
(version 2.4 and earlier had severe timeskew when running compute
bound programs, 2.5 is awesomely better and within range of "ntp"
to keep the clock correct). P11 also supports (as does Bob Supnik's
simulator) large disks such as the RP06 which is much nicer than
4 RL02s and a batch of RK05s.
Hmmm, I'm not sure which rev level of 2.11BSD is in the "on_rl02"
images - I hope it has the "bounce buffer support" to handle the 18bit
RK controller on a 22bit bus... If the RK images show corrupt or the
kernel crashes then I would suspect the kernel is a bit too old.
Unpack the "211bsd_on_rl02" images from the .gz images, edit the
"script" file to increase the system memory and you should be all
set to go.
Steven
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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:26:23 +0930
From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
To: UNIX Heritage Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Early file system layouts (was: Splitting / and /usr)
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Saw this on a NetBSD list.
Greg
----- Forwarded message from "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc at ftp.netbsd.org> -----
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
> To: kre at munnari.oz.au
> Cc: current-users at netbsd.org
> Precedence: list
> Delivered-To: current-users at netbsd.org
>
> Robert,
>
> [Off topic warning]
>
>>> Did you not know that /usr was split off only because the disks were too
>>> small to keep everything on one way back in the early days
>>
>> That's how I heard it too - but this split must have occurred way back
>> very early in the days before anyone outside Bell Labs had ever heard of
>> unix (as I remember it, even the CACM paper had /usr in it).
>
> I believe that the topic of splitting / and /usr was discussed
> at the Glasgow University meeting of the UKUUG, which was around
> 1978, if my memory serves me well. As the first copy of V5 and V6
> came out of the labs in the 1975/1976 timeframe, I suspect it came
> later. I don't have my copy of the CACM paper to hand, so I can't
> check dates.
>
> Whilst I attented the University there at that time, I didn't attend
> the conference - more fool me.
>
> I suspect that Alistair Kilgour or Zdravko Podolski could provide
> more information, or any of the Bell Labs alumni who were there.
>
> agc
----- End forwarded message -----
----- Forwarded message from Robert Elz <kre at munnari.OZ.AU> -----
> To: "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc at ftp.netbsd.org>
> Cc: current-users at netbsd.org
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:36:15 +1000
> Precedence: list
> Delivered-To: current-users at netbsd.org
>
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc at ftp.netbsd.org>
> Message-ID: <200004120831.BAA06860 at nbftp.isc.org>
>
>> [Off topic warning]
>
> Ditto - but recording history sometimes has its uses...
>
>> I believe that the topic of splitting / and /usr was discussed
>> at the Glasgow University meeting of the UKUUG, which was around
>> 1978,
>
> It was definitely done before that.
>
> Unfortunately, I can't find a 5th edition manual (or even a reprinted
> facsimilie thereof at the minute), but the 6th edition manual for sh(1)
> says ...
>
> If the first argument [ on a command line ] is the name of an
> executable file, it is invoked; otherwise the string `/bin' is
> prepended to the argument. (In this way most standard commands,
> which reside in `/bin', are found.) If no such command is found,
> the string `/usr' is further prepended (to give `/usr/bin/command')
> and another attempt is made to execute the resulting file. (Certain
> lesser-used commands live in `/usr/bin'.)
>
> The sixth edition manual is dated May 75, but the date on the sh man page
> is 5/15/74 (which I interpret as the 15th of May, 1974).
>
> For those who are new to unix (within the last 20 years) note that there
> was no notion of a user settable path...
>
>> I don't have my copy of the CACM paper to hand, so I can't
>> check dates.
>
> I have checked now, and it says nothing either way, so that is no help.
> Kernighan's "Unix for Beginners" (of a generally similar vintage) gives
> a diagrammatic view of the filesystem tree, in which all that exists in
> /usr are user directories, though that is not really conclusive.
>
>> I suspect that Alistair Kilgour or Zdravko Podolski could provide
>> more information, or any of the Bell Labs alumni who were there.
>
> I will see if Dennis will tell me...
>
> kre
>
----- End forwarded message -----
----- Forwarded message from Robert Elz <kre at munnari.OZ.AU> -----
> To: "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc at ftp.netbsd.org>, current-users at netbsd.org
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:45:05 +1000
> Precedence: list
> Delivered-To: current-users at netbsd.org
>
> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:36:15 +1000
> From: Robert Elz <kre at munnari.OZ.AU>
> Message-ID: <353.955586175 at munnari.OZ.AU>
>
>> I will see if Dennis will tell me...
>
> He did, ...
>
> But early; definitely by the time of the "nsys" system, the
> first C version, which was 1973.
>
> And ...
>
> The point of /usr/bin was really to find a place to put
> those binaries. (The .5MB disk was pretty cramped even
> with with two of them, as we later had).
>
> which (if we ever needed it) is confirmation or the original reason...
>
> kre
>
----- End forwarded message -----
--
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <200004130532.PAA08492 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Early file system layouts (/ and /usr split)
In-Reply-To: <20000413142623.A45386 at freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Apr 13, 2000 2:26:23 pm"
To: grog at lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:32:02 +1000 (EST)
Cc: current-users at netbsd.org
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[ This came to me from a NetBSD mailing list, via Greg Lehey ]
Someone said.....
> >>> Did you not know that /usr was split off only because the disks were too
> >>> small to keep everything on one way back in the early days
Someone else said....
> > I believe that the topic of splitting / and /usr was discussed
> > at the Glasgow University meeting of the UKUUG, which was around
> > 1978, if my memory serves me well. As the first copy of V5 and V6
> > came out of the labs in the 1975/1976 timeframe, I suspect it came
> > later. I don't have my copy of the CACM paper to hand, so I can't
> > check dates.
The answer is: UNIX had / and /usr split by at least the time of the
July 1974 CACM paper ``The UNIX Time-sharing system''.
Here is the evidence:
At http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/Images/ken-and-den.txt and
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/Images/ken-and-den.jpg
you will find a picture of Ken and Dennis at the PDP-11/20 around 1972.
The commentary in the text file from John Holden tell us that the disk
drives are RF-11 and RK03 drives.
RF-11 drives were fixed head drives with 512K of storage with fast access.
RK03s and RK05s could store 2M, but were not as fast as RF-11s.
The source code to (nearly) 3rd Edition UNIX, dated August 31, 1973, only
has drivers for two disks, RF-11s and RK05s. This source code is in the
PUPS Archive, http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS. You need a Unix src license.
Now, the July 1974 CACM paper says this:
In our installation, for example, the root directory resides
on the fixed-head disk, and the large disk drive, which contains
user's files, is mounted by the system initialization program; ....
To me, this strongly indicates that / and /usr were split by at least
July 1974, if not the earlier date of August 1973.
Cheers all,
Warren
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Early file system layouts (/ and /usr split)
In-Reply-To: <200004130532.PAA08492 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Warren Toomey at "Apr 13, 2000 3:32: 2 pm"
To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:50:17 +1000 (EST)
Cc: grog at lemis.com, current-users at netbsd.org
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In article by Warren Toomey:
> The answer is: UNIX had / and /usr split by at least the time of the
> July 1974 CACM paper ``The UNIX Time-sharing system''.
I just found some more evidence. The 2nd Edition UNIX manual is dated
June 1972, but the actual man pages have their date of last modification.
The manual for init(7), dated 15th June 1972, says:
[ If console switches are set to 173030, a shell is attached to the
console immediately, i.e single-user mode ]
Otherwise, init does some housekeeping: the mode of each DECtape
file is changed to [read-write] (in case the system crashed during
a tap command); directory /usr is mounted on the RK0 disk; directory
/sys is mounted on the RK1 disk.
Cheers,
Warren
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt@cs.adfa.edu.au>
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Subject: Re: Early file system layouts (/ and /usr split)
In-Reply-To: <200004130550.PAA08605 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Warren Toomey at "Apr 13, 2000 3:50:17 pm"
To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
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In article by Warren Toomey:
> In article by Warren Toomey:
> > The answer is: UNIX had / and /usr split by at least the time of the
> > July 1974 CACM paper ``The UNIX Time-sharing system''.
>
> I just found some more evidence.
And more, from the 1st Edition init(7) man page dated 3rd November, 1971.
Directory usr is assigned via sys mount as resident on the RK disk.
and sys mount means the mount(2) system call.
Cheers,
Warren
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2000-04-12 12:05 Help running 2.11 on Supnik 2.3d lars brinkhoff
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