From: Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org>
To: Jon Steinhart <jon@fourwinds.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware (Timothy Roscoe)
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2021 12:16:56 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <86F5F16F-EB3F-4AB8-9821-94CAE94465DB@iitbombay.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <202109171856.18HIuw5g3403957@darkstar.fourwinds.com>
On Sep 17, 2021, at 11:56 AM, Jon Steinhart <jon@fourwinds.com> wrote:
>
> Bakul Shah writes:
>>
>> IMHO the real issue is that the software folks are *not* providing
>> and *can no*t provide any sort of guidance for general purpose
>> computing, as the memory underlying modern programming languages
>> is so far removed from reality. The situation is sorta like what
>> happens with people with newly acquired incredible wealth but no
>> background in how to spend or manage it wisely (and I don't mean
>> *investing* to get more wealth). At least in that case there are
>> people who can help you and a tremendous need. Here we can put
>> billions and billions of gates on a chip and even do wafer scale
>> integration but these gates are not fungible like money.
>
> Are you sure about this? Or is it just that the hardware folks got to
> work without ever asking software/systems people for input?
Let me ask you.
You have a budget of 24 Billion transistors (& a much more limited
power budget). How would you spend it to maximize general purpose
computing?
Note that Esperanto Tech. was founded by Dave Ditzel, not exactly a
h/w newbie. [EE/CS, worked with Dave Patterson, CTO @ Sun, Transmeta
founder etc. etc.]. Now it is entirely possible that Esperanto folks
are building such processors for special purpose applications like
Machine learning but the fact is we simply have an incredible riches
of transistors that we don't how to spend wisely, [My opinion, of course]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-09-17 19:17 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-09-01 21:58 Dan Cross
2021-09-02 8:42 ` Tony Finch
2021-09-03 0:19 ` John Cowan
2021-09-03 3:24 ` Douglas McIlroy
2021-09-03 13:21 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-08 11:14 ` Tony Finch
2021-09-16 19:27 ` Dan Cross
2021-09-17 0:34 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 0:44 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 17:07 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 1:33 ` Dan Cross
2021-09-02 15:41 ` Kevin Bowling
2021-09-02 20:12 ` Marshall Conover
2021-09-03 15:56 ` Warner Losh
2021-09-03 17:10 ` Adam Thornton
2021-09-03 17:28 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-03 17:42 ` John Floren
2021-09-03 19:02 ` Lawrence Stewart
2021-09-03 19:11 ` Clem Cole
2021-09-03 17:46 ` [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware [ really a comment on SoCs ] Jon Steinhart
2021-09-16 18:38 ` [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware (Timothy Roscoe) Dan Cross
2021-09-16 19:34 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-16 19:41 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-16 23:14 ` Marshall Conover
2021-09-16 23:44 ` Rob Pike
2021-09-17 0:37 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 1:38 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 3:54 ` John Cowan
2021-09-16 23:45 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 0:06 ` Al Kossow
2021-09-17 4:06 ` John Cowan
2021-09-17 4:18 ` Al Kossow
2021-09-17 0:32 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-16 23:54 ` David Arnold
2021-09-17 1:10 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 1:28 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 1:40 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 2:04 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 2:21 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 2:48 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 17:39 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 17:51 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 18:07 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 21:03 ` Derek Fawcus
2021-09-17 22:11 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-19 4:05 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 18:34 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 18:56 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 19:16 ` Bakul Shah [this message]
2021-09-17 19:35 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 15:56 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 18:24 ` ron minnich
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