From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E89FA2A4C8 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 03:42:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C61C64365D; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:42:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pg1-x52f.google.com (mail-pg1-x52f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52f]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A11D426C6 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:42:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-6e40ee57f45so1288695a12.0 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 18:42:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1718329356; x=1718934156; darn=tuhs.org; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CUN95C1VwmdjEq2eWOvDX1NTUQ2lBySvhMN94E8DPb4=; b=Xg5JXffBi83VOAERHtf3oGTi6A6Tf+O9NbscofSC2xn2giuSUvoZQcQADym7TXXu/d 8HBoa6rsd0s+IPGml0zYmKpFaxBhkhYWlTgXrkSDOZtM7aBdL5ZrT89Gcz8uMqqj9JGM WvBTVfrd9MKtf4oB9rw9AwUuR3wAH3lc3HNGTDUklU0ou2zvabFRCFtMZJPyiuWKAi1+ d2JIEENSSKHFtWX1u09nTdKDRHWwOcTF2UUrR48V+UJh/pG7XJ8SqUsPMDncuzPPKM/a qrf6ytIN315/z5pcW8cYI19P+NGw1zoAdlAGw3/DCrOpzqWb2GrEMD5VGbVrom549gPO arlQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718329356; x=1718934156; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CUN95C1VwmdjEq2eWOvDX1NTUQ2lBySvhMN94E8DPb4=; b=tmwCsJmZr2AXST7ORapW7rjwTY00bUatwiPwGd6/LsyScalLlFzdCi5X9S8SpO6eql 4JmEaCEyDPv8Q0afjuNyXjt51mEUsJYZL5D2N1APEw6rTyQDT7Z7tqit5J7qhOkVALWT ZfkNhq/0a5GBxyQpch+JbRjZlr3uUdaFvvhaqDIAAAdyE2K65Goq5vg21ocZCChCERTJ crPxlx9xKKeo6wgXqxfgRAmN4b9RczK1/ntL56yrKGRGWyN21mxvAqI9WqNCi2r3xU5/ aHMAIWPW8sLxn6h2eWuiHlnu/jXjHUztbH2N4O7ngGo1jG1tdRGZEMHxuPmUTAdg6rZG 0RJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwqA8fMCHrsxOdxJOSYVH5wxr0k07dOprpNFGxK4XzSgx/u2zbs c32hZQC6fKFsDLa6kV2ZYfklwF2mWMBvl+79RMQBsuJy50qSUelYrp6drA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEVrS2vvgSzsMEr71FGOeqwh3TySzKhQGWUxFNCfVz3x6+FlDnpuwAzV8ZydgUh29va/zZvCw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:4603:b0:1b6:73b1:b157 with SMTP id adf61e73a8af0-1bae7ee62bbmr1945126637.36.1718329355960; Thu, 13 Jun 2024 18:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([120.21.61.120]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-1f855e739b7sm20855675ad.93.2024.06.13.18.42.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 13 Jun 2024 18:42:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexis To: The Unix Heritage Society In-Reply-To: <20240614005902.GD28495@mcvoy.com> (Larry McVoy's message of "Thu, 13 Jun 2024 17:59:02 -0700") References: <73819d1a-395a-4b74-a20c-0123fbed56bd@technologists.com> <4f7a96cc-2d96-4547-952c-b414a773b62a@app.fastmail.com> <87cyokpdvy.fsf@gmail.com> <20240614005902.GD28495@mcvoy.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2024 11:42:32 +1000 Message-ID: <878qz8paev.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID-Hash: 2F5A5LEWNHXMQDETMLAPG3Y44X54CYXF X-Message-ID-Hash: 2F5A5LEWNHXMQDETMLAPG3Y44X54CYXF X-MailFrom: flexibeast@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' ??? The Register List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Larry McVoy writes: > This is all well and good but what I, and I suspect other > boomers like me, > are looking for, is something like Ubuntu without systemd. I'm > a xubuntu > guy (Ubuntu with a lighter weight desktop), but whatever. > Ubuntu is fine, > everything works there. > > So is there an "Everything just works" distro without systemd? > A guy can > hope but I suspect not. Mm, well, i guess that depends on what one's "everything" is. i used Ubuntu years ago - having moved from Mandriva - and was pleased by how everything "just worked". But over time i started experiencing various issues where things _didn't_ just work (i can't remember what now; i think printing might have been one thing), which became increasingly frustrating. So i moved to Debian, and had a much more "just works" experience. But then Debian moved to systemd, and i started getting frustrated again in various ways, and so i moved to Void. Void's a binary distro, and i don't recall having any more issues with it than i ended up having with Ubuntu. And for experienced *n*x users, the installation process is trivial (even if the installer is text-based, rather than involving snazzy graphics). > I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass but I'm 62, I prefer to > spend my > effort on fishing on the ocean, I'm not some young guy that > wants to > put in a ton of hours on my Linux install Fwiw, i'm a 50-year-old woman. :-) My first distro was RedHat 5.2, around the end of '97. To me, this is a "bubbles in wallpaper" thing. i've spent the time setting up Gentoo because i'm now at the point where i'm clear on what i do and don't need/want (in general), and i'm trying to minimise the extent to which i'm beholden to having to deal with breaking changes to subsystems / libraries / software that i don't need/want, or with breakages i don't know how to immediately fix or workaround. Because i have _many_ other life commitments myself, and i've never distro-hopped just for the fun of it; i've always been driven to do so, for various reasons. My distro is merely a means to an end, not the end in itself. (i've taken on s6 documentation stuff because although there's no shortage of people wanting alternatives to systemd, there are far fewer people volunteering to do even small amounts of the work necessary for that.) Alexis.