From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD6052178F for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 02:49:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24DB743C87; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 10:49:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACEB443C84 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 10:49:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-7163489149eso330984a12.1 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:49:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1718930979; x=1719535779; darn=tuhs.org; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TlzqQQNAn7SlM+BFG3fukVddUiTgbbHKR64fEyHsicg=; b=d9IWdS6ZDINHoRF3jypT1L+jZqvhLpp4xccwz/X6wrqMklpEW4p5fQSIZhS1hoTmsV vmWpxv+089tZRqA4XHpk47OvWSBfZpYhLCBuVJaTVBtXa3tyifDuEKlrJcbDBs9ItuJD aRP2YEKptvusplj0Aw5OZMDIWIbY6UAlg/K25ARAZfnYYiXfr6jpgIJ73jaa1lh7/t9a DwQ52WWxQxjYFsfACDN85epV3wuUUEeuzZ2tvAQwNmvAnDS/aX1V6PzsD6EG953iaKO0 3doTGFX8/tpdWwMj14mYToNZBC/Wi7EYOwhHndWEuA+7JVRK3LTwBnMO35R4gH3SpF8E yj0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718930979; x=1719535779; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TlzqQQNAn7SlM+BFG3fukVddUiTgbbHKR64fEyHsicg=; b=oTnNdHCVQJ/3P73zoZbY0I2lfBbxOtUU2/VKm37UYCCCPUOZIe+MLRffL1k65bjOrf q51tSd1WHaHd+5CAX7b93dI+aRy6eEfdPNYL+ledEazPd31C/YK/Fm132RYCmkM2HBya 2nuJL/y6iX+YbNKCmKUwY700jh+IEly9m+P1S9Alplqp7BWYh1QnSfiQFGK5Y9zWvHLN Jg5h7gbOQLg3pV6E/4Ey1q/KsqxifJ/8J43pvglCSg43xy4mBOi0p4XoMae4+h26Cbmc bF+qnKjBPl3+0Xu2XG0Xg/jsOYFXE8qlKD7+cC1gKz0rJWnm0cR2M7xyAHoY2RvhCEIg HzIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzLSeBFR8LjRVWqwvPg4spYn3uWCvhyJ3mGzkf7RBnMyIxs2B3K 33kb8lW1WtgbIylYmt/yLwrXfRcpI/OeHnGizmDEJQC7l8kN9q/qcbnUcA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGx16IfDfI125YMeYnXfaCCq2gWUfcPR6u3vDaLGLT14r/xPmgLqfaSWd4a2VrnlKy4Lcen9A== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:101:b0:2c2:d637:a79c with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c7b5afc2e8mr6677117a91.19.1718930979435; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([101.119.161.198]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c7e4ff8dcasm2371115a91.1.2024.06.20.17.49.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:49:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexis To: The Unix Heritage Society In-Reply-To: <20240621003532.GA13079@mcvoy.com> (Larry McVoy's message of "Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:35:32 -0700") References: <87jzikt900.fsf@gmail.com> <877cej5gsp.fsf@gmail.com> <20240621003532.GA13079@mcvoy.com> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 10:49:34 +1000 Message-ID: <87frt7f7c1.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID-Hash: 55MVFRN6IHB5INSUFMVWTSAELHSJJ6NP X-Message-ID-Hash: 55MVFRN6IHB5INSUFMVWTSAELHSJJ6NP X-MailFrom: flexibeast@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Building programs (Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' The Register List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Larry McVoy writes: > I've been up since 12:22am (psyched for fishing, couldn't sleep) > so > maybe I'm not on point, but what is the problem that this > discussion > is trying to solve? The complexity of the autoconf-based build process contributed to the xz-utils backdoor attempt. (Here's Russ Cox's writeup: https://research.swtch.com/xz-script) So, to what extent is the complexity of autoconf _needed_ nowadays? For some cases, it's not needed (and might never have been needed). For others, it seems like it might still be needed. What about the in-between cases? Can we do something different that gets us 90% of what autoconf provides in those cases, but with only 10% of the complexity (to use those commonly-provided figures)? Alexis.