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* [TUHS] Documentation for Unix 4.0
@ 2022-06-06  1:40 Warren Toomey via TUHS
  2022-06-06  2:15 ` [TUHS] " Warner Losh
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Warren Toomey via TUHS @ 2022-06-06  1:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/

This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore.

Cheers, Warren

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-06  1:40 [TUHS] Documentation for Unix 4.0 Warren Toomey via TUHS
@ 2022-06-06  2:15 ` Warner Losh
  2022-06-06  9:19   ` arnold
  2022-06-06  2:26 ` Larry McVoy
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2022-06-06  2:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warren Toomey; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Sun, Jun 5, 2022, 7:40 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

> Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
>
> This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
> documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore.
>

Shiny. New things to read... never thought we'd see this...

Must resist the urge to ask about boot tapes. :)

Warner

>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-06  1:40 [TUHS] Documentation for Unix 4.0 Warren Toomey via TUHS
  2022-06-06  2:15 ` [TUHS] " Warner Losh
@ 2022-06-06  2:26 ` Larry McVoy
  2022-06-06  9:20   ` arnold
  2022-06-06  6:21 ` G. Branden Robinson
  2022-06-10  6:47 ` Ed Bradford
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Larry McVoy @ 2022-06-06  2:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warren Toomey; +Cc: tuhs

These look like a treasure trove.  Gonna read all of this.

On Mon, Jun 06, 2022 at 11:40:42AM +1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
> 
> This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
> documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore.
> 
> Cheers, Warren

-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-06  1:40 [TUHS] Documentation for Unix 4.0 Warren Toomey via TUHS
  2022-06-06  2:15 ` [TUHS] " Warner Losh
  2022-06-06  2:26 ` Larry McVoy
@ 2022-06-06  6:21 ` G. Branden Robinson
  2022-06-06  9:26   ` arnold
  2022-06-10  6:47 ` Ed Bradford
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: G. Branden Robinson @ 2022-06-06  6:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

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At 2022-06-06T11:40:42+1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
> 
> This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
> documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt
> Gilmore.

Thank you all very much for this.  As an amateur *roff historian I think
among the other treasures here is a January 1981 addendum to Ossanna's
1976 Nroff/Troff User's Manual.  This would be _after_ Kernighan's
rewrite of the code to become device-independent troff.  Indeed, the
only troff (cf. nroff) device documented as supported is "Wang
Laboratories' C/A/T phototypesetter".  Not the Linotron, not the
Autologic, not the Imagen.

This is the earliest attestation of device-independent troff I'm aware
of, and moreover it's _documentary of the system_.  Great stuff!

(I've effused about this on the groff list already.)

Regards,
Branden

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* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-06  2:15 ` [TUHS] " Warner Losh
@ 2022-06-06  9:19   ` arnold
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2022-06-06  9:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: wkt, imp; +Cc: tuhs

Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 5, 2022, 7:40 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
> > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
> >
> > This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
> > documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore.
> >
>
> Shiny. New things to read... never thought we'd see this...
>
> Must resist the urge to ask about boot tapes. :)
>
> Warner
>
> >

I wish I'd been able to get a source tape at the time.  I  might could
have, but how I was I to know?  :-(

I suspect that machine readable media for this simply doesn't exist
anymore, more's the pity.

Arnold

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-06  2:26 ` Larry McVoy
@ 2022-06-06  9:20   ` arnold
  2022-06-07 16:57     ` John Cowan
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2022-06-06  9:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: wkt, lm; +Cc: tuhs

Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:

> These look like a treasure trove.  Gonna read all of this.

There's a lot of stuff there that's familiar, straight from V7.
But yes, there's also a lot of stuff that's unique to USG Unix of the time.

Arnold

> On Mon, Jun 06, 2022 at 11:40:42AM +1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> > Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
> > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
> > 
> > This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
> > documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore.
> > 
> > Cheers, Warren
>
> -- 
> ---
> Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-06  6:21 ` G. Branden Robinson
@ 2022-06-06  9:26   ` arnold
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2022-06-06  9:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs, g.branden.robinson

"G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> wrote:

> At 2022-06-06T11:40:42+1000, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> > Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
> > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
> > 
> > This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
> > documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt
> > Gilmore.
>
> Thank you all very much for this.  As an amateur *roff historian I think
> among the other treasures here is a January 1981 addendum to Ossanna's
> 1976 Nroff/Troff User's Manual.  This would be _after_ Kernighan's
> rewrite of the code to become device-independent troff.  Indeed, the
> only troff (cf. nroff) device documented as supported is "Wang
> Laboratories' C/A/T phototypesetter".  Not the Linotron, not the
> Autologic, not the Imagen.

If you look at the second page of the table of contents doc, you'll
see that it was set on an Autologic APS-5, so you're right, this
is after BWK's work.

Arnold

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-06  9:20   ` arnold
@ 2022-06-07 16:57     ` John Cowan
  2022-06-07 19:32       ` G. Branden Robinson
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: John Cowan @ 2022-06-07 16:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Aharon Robbins; +Cc: wkt, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 5:20 AM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:


> There's a lot of stuff there that's familiar, straight from V7.
> But yes, there's also a lot of stuff that's unique to USG Unix of the time.
>

As a non-insider, here's what I see that's unfamiliar:

In Volume 1:


   - -mv macros for viewgraphs and slides
   - the *full* C reference manual (oopsie!) without the "late K&R" addendum
   - make(1) with E.G. Bradford's changes
   - the sdb(1) debugger


In Volume 2:


   - an SCCS front end (not the same as the BSD one)
   - a bunch of graphics commands
   - ged(1g), a graphics editor
   - stat, tools for analyzing data
   - vpm, the Virtual Protocol Machine for outboard comms
   - Unix RJE
   - Stand-Alone I/O Library for bare-metal programs
   - Equipment Test Package

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* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-07 16:57     ` John Cowan
@ 2022-06-07 19:32       ` G. Branden Robinson
  2022-06-09 22:19         ` Derek Fawcus
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: G. Branden Robinson @ 2022-06-07 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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At 2022-06-07T12:57:59-0400, John Cowan wrote:
> As a non-insider, here's what I see that's unfamiliar:
> 
> In Volume 1:
[...]
>    - the *full* C reference manual (oopsie!) without the "late K&R" addendum

By that addendum do you mean the "Recent Changes to C" 1-page memo dated
1978-11-15 that appears with some copies of Seventh Edition Unix
documentation?

For those who don't have it handy, it documents structure assignment and
introduces enum types.

Or is there another piece of samizdat I should keep an eye out for?  :)

Regards,
Branden

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* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-07 19:32       ` G. Branden Robinson
@ 2022-06-09 22:19         ` Derek Fawcus
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Derek Fawcus @ 2022-06-09 22:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

On Tue, Jun 07, 2022 at 02:32:33PM -0500, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> 
> By that addendum do you mean the "Recent Changes to C" 1-page memo dated
> 1978-11-15 that appears with some copies of Seventh Edition Unix
> documentation?
> 
> For those who don't have it handy, it documents structure assignment and
> introduces enum types.
> 
> Or is there another piece of samizdat I should keep an eye out for?  :)

Have a look here: https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/cchanges.pdf

DF

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-06  1:40 [TUHS] Documentation for Unix 4.0 Warren Toomey via TUHS
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2022-06-06  6:21 ` G. Branden Robinson
@ 2022-06-10  6:47 ` Ed Bradford
  2022-06-10  7:31   ` [TUHS] Source code for SCCS (was Re: Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0) arnold
  2022-06-10 14:22   ` [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0 Clem Cole
  3 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Ed Bradford @ 2022-06-10  6:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warren Toomey; +Cc: UNIX Heritage Society

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Hi Warren,

Thank you for the amazing Unix documetation.
Do you know if there is a source code for SCCS anywhere on the net?

Ed Bradford

On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 8:40 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

> Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
>
> This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
> documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore.
>
> Cheers, Warren
>


-- 
Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
  Cicero

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Source code for SCCS (was Re: Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0)
  2022-06-10  6:47 ` Ed Bradford
@ 2022-06-10  7:31   ` arnold
  2022-06-10  8:38     ` [TUHS] " Matthias Bruestle
  2022-06-10 14:22   ` [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0 Clem Cole
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2022-06-10  7:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: wkt, egbegb2; +Cc: tuhs

The GNU project has CSSC, which is an SCCS clone.

HTH,

Arnold

Ed Bradford <egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Warren,
>
> Thank you for the amazing Unix documetation.
> Do you know if there is a source code for SCCS anywhere on the net?
>
> Ed Bradford
>
> On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 8:40 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
> > https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
> >
> > This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
> > documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore.
> >
> > Cheers, Warren
> >
>
>
> -- 
> Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
>   Cicero

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Source code for SCCS (was Re: Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0)
  2022-06-10  7:31   ` [TUHS] Source code for SCCS (was Re: Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0) arnold
@ 2022-06-10  8:38     ` Matthias Bruestle
  2022-06-10 10:03       ` arnold
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Matthias Bruestle @ 2022-06-10  8:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 01:31:48AM -0600, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> The GNU project has CSSC, which is an SCCS clone.

I had a look what SCCS. I know it now, found CSSC, but also
http://sccs.sourceforge.net/ and that Wikipedia points me to
https://publications.opengroup.org/ as the official repository,
where I don't find anything about SCCS.

Matthias

-- 
When You Find Out Your Normal Daily Lifestyle Is Called Quarantine

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Source code for SCCS (was Re: Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0)
  2022-06-10  8:38     ` [TUHS] " Matthias Bruestle
@ 2022-06-10 10:03       ` arnold
  2022-06-15  5:32         ` Stuart Remphrey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: arnold @ 2022-06-10 10:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs, m

Matthias Bruestle <m@mbsks.franken.de> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 01:31:48AM -0600, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> > The GNU project has CSSC, which is an SCCS clone.
>
> I had a look what SCCS. I know it now, found CSSC, but also
> http://sccs.sourceforge.net/

That is what you're looking for, the source to SCCS.

> and that Wikipedia points me to
> https://publications.opengroup.org/ as the official repository,
> where I don't find anything about SCCS.

That site has the POSIX standards which describe how SCCS is
supposed to work, not the source code for it.

HTH,

Arnold

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-10  6:47 ` Ed Bradford
  2022-06-10  7:31   ` [TUHS] Source code for SCCS (was Re: Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0) arnold
@ 2022-06-10 14:22   ` Clem Cole
  2022-06-10 19:24     ` John Cowan
  2022-06-11  4:34     ` Ed Bradford
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2022-06-10 14:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ed Bradford; +Cc: Warren Toomey, UNIX Heritage Society

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The original Marc Rochchild/John Mashey and team code from PWB 1.0 can be
found:  http://tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/spencer_pwb.tar.gz
In the directory: sys/source/sccs4
The man pages are in the same archive but mixed with the rest of the
commands in usr/man/man*

That said, there is Gnu version of same written C++ if IIRC:
https://www.gnu.org/software/cssc/

And there's more ... but I'll Larry offer details here other than point out
his: http://www.bitmover.com/bitsccs/ [which is of BitKeeper] is a
more modern implementation still]
ᐧ

On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 2:48 AM Ed Bradford <egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Warren,
>
> Thank you for the amazing Unix documetation.
> Do you know if there is a source code for SCCS anywhere on the net?
>
> Ed Bradford
>
> On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 8:40 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
>> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
>>
>> This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
>> documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore.
>>
>> Cheers, Warren
>>
>
>
> --
> Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
>   Cicero
>
>

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* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-10 14:22   ` [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0 Clem Cole
@ 2022-06-10 19:24     ` John Cowan
  2022-06-11  4:34     ` Ed Bradford
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: John Cowan @ 2022-06-10 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: Warren Toomey, UNIX Heritage Society

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On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 10:23 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

That said, there is Gnu version of same written C++ if IIRC:
> https://www.gnu.org/software/cssc/
>

... which stands for Compatibly Stupid Source Control.

>
> And there's more ...
>
> In particular, the Heirloom Toolkit at <
https://sourceforge.net/projects/heirloom/> contains the Solaris version of
SCCS, and SRC source control <http://www.catb.org/~esr/src/> provides a
modern-style front-end over either RCS or SCCS; it is designed for
maintaining single files, possibly in the same directory, without
entangling their versioning.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-10 14:22   ` [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0 Clem Cole
  2022-06-10 19:24     ` John Cowan
@ 2022-06-11  4:34     ` Ed Bradford
  2022-06-11 14:43       ` Clem Cole
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Ed Bradford @ 2022-06-11  4:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: Warren Toomey, UNIX Heritage Society

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Thank you, Clem. You link didn't work but the other information on cssc
worked fine.

Ed


On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 9:23 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> The original Marc Rochchild/John Mashey and team code from PWB 1.0 can be
> found:  http://tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/spencer_pwb.tar.gz
> In the directory: sys/source/sccs4
> The man pages are in the same archive but mixed with the rest of the
> commands in usr/man/man*
>
> That said, there is Gnu version of same written C++ if IIRC:
> https://www.gnu.org/software/cssc/
>
> And there's more ... but I'll Larry offer details here other than point
> out his: http://www.bitmover.com/bitsccs/ [which is of BitKeeper] is a
> more modern implementation still]
> ᐧ
>
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 2:48 AM Ed Bradford <egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Warren,
>>
>> Thank you for the amazing Unix documetation.
>> Do you know if there is a source code for SCCS anywhere on the net?
>>
>> Ed Bradford
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 8:40 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
>>> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
>>>
>>> This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
>>> documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt Gilmore.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Warren
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
>>   Cicero
>>
>>

-- 
Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
  Cicero

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-11  4:34     ` Ed Bradford
@ 2022-06-11 14:43       ` Clem Cole
  2022-06-12  5:45         ` Ed Bradford
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2022-06-11 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ed Bradford; +Cc: UNIX Heritage Society, Warren Toomey

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Your welcome.  What do you mean by the first link did not work.  It’s a
tarball that has to be decoded and then look inside for the original code.
It’s there.  I just tried it.

On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 12:35 AM Ed Bradford <egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Clem. You link didn't work but the other information on cssc
> worked fine.
>
> Ed
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 9:23 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>
>> The original Marc Rochchild/John Mashey and team code from PWB 1.0 can be
>> found:  http://tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/spencer_pwb.tar.gz
>> In the directory: sys/source/sccs4
>> The man pages are in the same archive but mixed with the rest of the
>> commands in usr/man/man*
>>
>> That said, there is Gnu version of same written C++ if IIRC:
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/cssc/
>>
>> And there's more ... but I'll Larry offer details here other than point
>> out his: http://www.bitmover.com/bitsccs/ [which is of BitKeeper] is a
>> more modern implementation still]
>> ᐧ
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 2:48 AM Ed Bradford <egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Warren,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the amazing Unix documetation.
>>> Do you know if there is a source code for SCCS anywhere on the net?
>>>
>>> Ed Bradford
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 8:40 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
>>>> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
>>>>
>>>> This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
>>>> documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt
>>>> Gilmore.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Warren
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
>>>   Cicero
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
>   Cicero
>
> --
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual

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* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-11 14:43       ` Clem Cole
@ 2022-06-12  5:45         ` Ed Bradford
  2022-06-12  6:41           ` Warren Toomey via TUHS
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Ed Bradford @ 2022-06-12  5:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: UNIX Heritage Society, Warren Toomey


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[image: image.png]

On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 9:44 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> Your welcome.  What do you mean by the first link did not work.  It’s a
> tarball that has to be decoded and then look inside for the original code.
> It’s there.  I just tried it.
>
> On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 12:35 AM Ed Bradford <egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Clem. You link didn't work but the other information on cssc
>> worked fine.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 9:23 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The original Marc Rochchild/John Mashey and team code from PWB 1.0 can
>>> be found:  http://tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/spencer_pwb.tar.gz
>>> In the directory: sys/source/sccs4
>>> The man pages are in the same archive but mixed with the rest of the
>>> commands in usr/man/man*
>>>
>>> That said, there is Gnu version of same written C++ if IIRC:
>>> https://www.gnu.org/software/cssc/
>>>
>>> And there's more ... but I'll Larry offer details here other than point
>>> out his: http://www.bitmover.com/bitsccs/ [which is of BitKeeper] is a
>>> more modern implementation still]
>>> ᐧ
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 2:48 AM Ed Bradford <egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Warren,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the amazing Unix documetation.
>>>> Do you know if there is a source code for SCCS anywhere on the net?
>>>>
>>>> Ed Bradford
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 5, 2022 at 8:40 PM Warren Toomey via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all, we have a new addition to the Unix Archive at:
>>>>> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/Unix_4.0/
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the documentation for Unix 4.0 which preceded System V. The
>>>>> documents were provided by Arnold Robbins and scanned in by Matt
>>>>> Gilmore.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, Warren
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
>>>>   Cicero
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
>>   Cicero
>>
>> --
> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>


-- 
Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.
  Cicero

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* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-12  5:45         ` Ed Bradford
@ 2022-06-12  6:41           ` Warren Toomey via TUHS
  2022-06-13 13:18             ` Jay Logue via TUHS
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Warren Toomey via TUHS @ 2022-06-12  6:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ed Bradford; +Cc: UNIX Heritage Society

On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 12:35 AM Ed Bradford <[2]egbegb2@gmail.com> wrote:
>    Thank you, Clem. You link didn't work but the other information on cssc
>    worked fine.

All, it turns out that this was my fault. I'd moved the A record for
www.tuhs.org over to the new IP address, but I hadn't moved the A record
for tuhs.org over to that new IP address.

I've just done so, but it will take a while for the DNS records to proagate.

Apologies!

	Warren

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-12  6:41           ` Warren Toomey via TUHS
@ 2022-06-13 13:18             ` Jay Logue via TUHS
  2022-06-13 15:49               ` Norman Wilson
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jay Logue via TUHS @ 2022-06-13 13:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warren Toomey; +Cc: UNIX Heritage Society

On 6/11/2022 11:41 PM, Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote:
> All, it turns out that this was my fault. I'd moved the A record for
> www.tuhs.org over to the new IP address, but I hadn't moved the A record
> for tuhs.org over to that new IP address.
Maybe make www.tuhs.org a CNAME for tuhs.org?

--Jay

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
@ 2022-06-13 15:49               ` Norman Wilson
  2022-06-13 16:39                 ` Michael Kjörling
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Norman Wilson @ 2022-06-13 15:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

  Maybe make www.tuhs.org a CNAME for tuhs.org?

Surely a site devoted to the history of UNIX should use a
real link, not a symbolic one.

Norman `Old Fart' Wilson
Toronto ON

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-13 15:49               ` Norman Wilson
@ 2022-06-13 16:39                 ` Michael Kjörling
  2022-06-15  1:53                   ` Stuart Remphrey
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kjörling @ 2022-06-13 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

On 13 Jun 2022 11:49 -0400, from norman@oclsc.org (Norman Wilson):
>> Maybe make www.tuhs.org a CNAME for tuhs.org?
> 
> Surely a site devoted to the history of UNIX should use a
> real link, not a symbolic one.

Surely a site that aims to collect information should have a single
canonical name, not multiple ones that lead to the same content on the
same host.

I would suggest to pick either www.tuhs.org or tuhs.org as the HTTP
hostname, and make the other redirect to the first (or remove HTTP
service from the not-chosen one entirely) only so as to not break
existing links from elsewhere.

-- 
Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael@kjorling.se
 “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-13 16:39                 ` Michael Kjörling
@ 2022-06-15  1:53                   ` Stuart Remphrey
  2022-06-15  5:57                     ` Michael Kjörling
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Stuart Remphrey @ 2022-06-15  1:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kjörling; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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Yes, tuhs.org:80 &443 could permanently redirect to www.tuhs.org so
browsers update to the full canonical name (assuming that's the desired
name).

Though I think Norman was drawing an analogy between A-records/hard links
and CNAME/symlinks, then observing that prior to 4.2BSD in 1983 there were
no symlinks only hard links, ditto CNAMEs in RFC-882, also 1983.
So if we're going back further, we shouldn't use them (it breaks down a
little when considering A-records though, since we can't easily not use
those!)


On Tue, 14 Jun 2022, 00:44 Michael Kjörling, <michael@kjorling.se> wrote:

> On 13 Jun 2022 11:49 -0400, from norman@oclsc.org (Norman Wilson):
> >> Maybe make www.tuhs.org a CNAME for tuhs.org?
> >
> > Surely a site devoted to the history of UNIX should use a
> > real link, not a symbolic one.
>
> Surely a site that aims to collect information should have a single
> canonical name, not multiple ones that lead to the same content on the
> same host.
>
> I would suggest to pick either www.tuhs.org or tuhs.org as the HTTP
> hostname, and make the other redirect to the first (or remove HTTP
> service from the not-chosen one entirely) only so as to not break
> existing links from elsewhere.
>
> --
> Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael@kjorling.se
>  “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Source code for SCCS (was Re: Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0)
  2022-06-10 10:03       ` arnold
@ 2022-06-15  5:32         ` Stuart Remphrey
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Stuart Remphrey @ 2022-06-15  5:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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> https://publications.opengroup.org/
> as the official repository,
> where I don't find anything about SCCS
Pubs.OpenGroup links to their unix.org site, which amongst others includes
the Commands & Utilities std, though not the code, which may include SCCS
(I didn't check further):
https://unix.org/version4/xcu_contents.html

If the SCCS commands are standardised there, I expect (hope?) the file
format is also specified in one of those docs, for file interchange
compatibility.

(Ongoing maintenance is handled by the Austin Group, also linked from there)


On Fri, 10 Jun 2022, 18:04 , <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:

> Matthias Bruestle <m@mbsks.franken.de> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 01:31:48AM -0600, arnold@skeeve.com wrote:
> > > The GNU project has CSSC, which is an SCCS clone.
> >
> > I had a look what SCCS. I know it now, found CSSC, but also
> > http://sccs.sourceforge.net/
>
> That is what you're looking for, the source to SCCS.
>
> > and that Wikipedia points me to
> > https://publications.opengroup.org/ as the official repository,
> > where I don't find anything about SCCS.
>
> That site has the POSIX standards which describe how SCCS is
> supposed to work, not the source code for it.
>
> HTH,
>
> Arnold
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-15  1:53                   ` Stuart Remphrey
@ 2022-06-15  5:57                     ` Michael Kjörling
  2022-06-15 12:04                       ` Dan Cross
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Michael Kjörling @ 2022-06-15  5:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tuhs

On 15 Jun 2022 09:53 +0800, from stu@remphrey.net (Stuart Remphrey):
> Though I think Norman was drawing an analogy between A-records/hard links
> and CNAME/symlinks, then observing that prior to 4.2BSD in 1983 there were
> no symlinks only hard links, ditto CNAMEs in RFC-882, also 1983.
> So if we're going back further, we shouldn't use them (it breaks down a
> little when considering A-records though, since we can't easily not use
> those!)

By much that same line of reasoning, tuhs.org shouldn't have any MX
records either because the MX RRtype was introduced as recently as in
1986 (Wikipedia puts it at RFCs 973 and 974 [1] but without wide use
until "in the early 1990s"). Let alone a web presence because HTTP and
HTML came along even later. :-)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MX_record#Historical_background

-- 
Michael Kjörling • https://michael.kjorling.se • michael@kjorling.se
 “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-15  5:57                     ` Michael Kjörling
@ 2022-06-15 12:04                       ` Dan Cross
  2022-06-16  7:45                         ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2022-06-15 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Michael Kjörling; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

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On Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 1:57 AM Michael Kjörling <michael@kjorling.se> wrote:

> On 15 Jun 2022 09:53 +0800, from stu@remphrey.net (Stuart Remphrey):
> > Though I think Norman was drawing an analogy between A-records/hard links
> > and CNAME/symlinks, then observing that prior to 4.2BSD in 1983 there
> were
> > no symlinks only hard links, ditto CNAMEs in RFC-882, also 1983.
> > So if we're going back further, we shouldn't use them (it breaks down a
> > little when considering A-records though, since we can't easily not use
> > those!)
>
> By much that same line of reasoning, tuhs.org shouldn't have any MX
> records either because the MX RRtype was introduced as recently as in
> 1986 (Wikipedia puts it at RFCs 973 and 974 [1] but without wide use
> until "in the early 1990s"). Let alone a web presence because HTTP and
> HTML came along even later. :-)
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MX_record#Historical_background


This definitely feels like it extends the joke a tad too far. :-)

        - Dan C.

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0
  2022-06-15 12:04                       ` Dan Cross
@ 2022-06-16  7:45                         ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS @ 2022-06-16  7:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society

Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> writes:

> This definitely feels like it extends the joke a tad too far. :-)

Nah, not until we start demanding ..!minnie!tuhs as the list address.

-tih (who has two 11/23 systems with PWB 1.0 connected via UUCP)
-- 
Most people who graduate with CS degrees don't understand the significance
of Lisp.  Lisp is the most important idea in computer science.  --Alan Kay

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-06-16  7:45 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 28+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-06-06  1:40 [TUHS] Documentation for Unix 4.0 Warren Toomey via TUHS
2022-06-06  2:15 ` [TUHS] " Warner Losh
2022-06-06  9:19   ` arnold
2022-06-06  2:26 ` Larry McVoy
2022-06-06  9:20   ` arnold
2022-06-07 16:57     ` John Cowan
2022-06-07 19:32       ` G. Branden Robinson
2022-06-09 22:19         ` Derek Fawcus
2022-06-06  6:21 ` G. Branden Robinson
2022-06-06  9:26   ` arnold
2022-06-10  6:47 ` Ed Bradford
2022-06-10  7:31   ` [TUHS] Source code for SCCS (was Re: Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0) arnold
2022-06-10  8:38     ` [TUHS] " Matthias Bruestle
2022-06-10 10:03       ` arnold
2022-06-15  5:32         ` Stuart Remphrey
2022-06-10 14:22   ` [TUHS] Re: Documentation for Unix 4.0 Clem Cole
2022-06-10 19:24     ` John Cowan
2022-06-11  4:34     ` Ed Bradford
2022-06-11 14:43       ` Clem Cole
2022-06-12  5:45         ` Ed Bradford
2022-06-12  6:41           ` Warren Toomey via TUHS
2022-06-13 13:18             ` Jay Logue via TUHS
2022-06-13 15:49               ` Norman Wilson
2022-06-13 16:39                 ` Michael Kjörling
2022-06-15  1:53                   ` Stuart Remphrey
2022-06-15  5:57                     ` Michael Kjörling
2022-06-15 12:04                       ` Dan Cross
2022-06-16  7:45                         ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via TUHS

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