From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 3433 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2020 16:01:36 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Dec 2020 16:01:36 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 90AE994541; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 02:01:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 000E8944D4; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 02:01:09 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="wwhFXUzT"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BF636944D4; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 02:01:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oo1-f53.google.com (mail-oo1-f53.google.com [209.85.161.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F125944D3 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 02:01:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oo1-f53.google.com with SMTP id h10so494333ooi.10 for ; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 08:01:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iitbombay-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version:subject:date:message-id :references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=C0s9wq5x4cLhXIc/7myMCnxlsmv/u1Qk5dI/mlkdmaA=; b=wwhFXUzTRTr1Wl7UncuNAzO+JO9UD9W7ynxfRJjUtRJ0DnHOLgAfCTT2lDJn2yUzO2 y0vTz/4jbd5oQH9y8VgnTQTqT31MMvMZDOi2yRYj6mQWQ1yV9Ur8+0Yb3OT6ozOGeA0+ sZj8DEwAduNVC5EobDIS9w1v6bT1y7vHcvtct3/xrSd2zcThglJ0lXGjvt33exprgl8X bz1g6gsJvBzZo73OyTAPdZYlwsnYQDTUxjggXdR+EJ6GU4nmbPMr7/O1tBzX3mbuWYHY LVRDRuV83E7BVwfo49eFd4bwoZABFUGSzUdNwXBsgAN1T9IVv+yulqsUVfjdf+txItYe 8hYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:content-transfer-encoding:from:mime-version :subject:date:message-id:references:cc:in-reply-to:to; bh=C0s9wq5x4cLhXIc/7myMCnxlsmv/u1Qk5dI/mlkdmaA=; b=A6fSvRapcJjUWbAsX8qz+MUvIiC4/Pyc0+srr76QrUBCaML2vYTI++zdGV39tVtvte 4Wax19LvQeXJBKWqIh2cPgq6+lyATzFqOwAjJgKUqgsa42e1ah3cI9HfjC9q8p16lM6p A7C4Y5ICheWu8pbw8psq1640OwXUobnphLgI/jCkHee+6GVKsF5f50JVh9AXzHtQ0FK6 7DZBk5wQzhetcxjKNSf1oWR+liJQZzTApoDvsvnYBrzwPGTcK2OO+wfu4ar+Bd1QZavq qvQx3M1A7qWYsGWve/joNEITvG52gZlflUKSKYGmCssMSExEZiU2W1iatSRcpf/Gh0mB 7Rtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532w9w/DbWIilUxdvYRKI8btcOoUPLjE7Byj1tz7LpS8k4UorMwf aXiyk53+2/Hbb4qSJFFkEXSZNJwLvwHSzA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxN8Q9Lb9NKKdHjUQFMp1T1oIXS8Vi2yjg+7fXiiwYbZCTTrsrlbiFFPri06hSWPs+l4wRPVg== X-Received: by 2002:a4a:a11f:: with SMTP id i31mr2429843ool.18.1607529664181; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 08:01:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?IPv6:2600:1700:42f2:310:a9e3:d1ff:e921:6cbf? ([2600:1700:42f2:310:a9e3:d1ff:e921:6cbf]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v4sm456980otk.50.2020.12.09.08.01.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 09 Dec 2020 08:01:03 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1237D096-4271-421C-A0AD-68507001AF3D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Bakul Shah Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 08:01:02 -0800 Message-Id: <88E7F8CE-DC08-44AB-BF12-EFD4C5958950@iitbombay.org> References: In-Reply-To: To: Clem Cole X-Mailer: iPad Mail (18B92) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Were cron and at done at the same time? Or one before the other? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail-1237D096-4271-421C-A0AD-68507001AF3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please don=E2=80=99t blame c++ on pascal folks. stroustrup had nothing to do= with pascal. =20 > On Dec 9, 2020, at 7:41 AM, Clem Cole wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Amen Doug. >=20 >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:36 PM M Douglas McIlroy wrote: >> To paraphrase John Cocke (speaking about Fortran): one must understand >> that Unix commands are not a logical language. They are a natural >> language--in the sense that they developed by organic evolution, not >> "intelligent design". > But I offer a suggestion that another dimension that should be forgotten i= n time scale and the economics within. >=20 > When things evolve they do so on different clocks that are not necessarily= linear. i.e. what was 'better' (winning) today, but might not be consider= ed so tomorrow, however could yet prove otherwise sometime later. I use pro= gramming languages as a great example... There was a huge C vs Pascal deba= te, that C 'won' - but I've always said the rise of C++ came from the Pascal= folks that could say "C didn't win." =46rom the ashes of C++ we have Java,= Go, and Rust.=20 >=20 > My point is that "intelligent design" doesn't necessarily guarantee good= ness or for that matter,complete logical thinking. >=20 > My own take on this is what I call "Cole's Law" Simple economics always b= eats sophisticated architecture. > What you call organic evolution is what I think of what makes the best eco= nomic sense for the user and that is a function of the time scale and availa= ble resources at the time of creation/deployment. >=20 > Clem >=20 --Apple-Mail-1237D096-4271-421C-A0AD-68507001AF3D Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
please don=E2=80=99t blame= c++ on pascal folks. stroustrup had nothing to do with pascal.  
=

On Dec 9, 2020, at 7:41 AM, C= lem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
<= font color=3D"#0000ff">Amen Doug.
=
= On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:36 PM M Douglas McIlroy &l= t;m.douglas.mcilroy@dartm= outh.edu> wrote:
To paraphrase John Cocke (spea= king about Fortran): one must understand
that Unix commands are not a logical language. They are a natural
language--in the sense that they developed by organic evolution, not
"intelligent design".
But I offer a suggestion that another dimension that should be forgotten in= time scale and the economics within.

When th= ings evolve they do so on different clocks that are not necessarily lin= ear.   i.e. what was 'better' (winning) today, but might no= t be considered so tomorrow, however could yet prove otherwise sometime late= r.  I use programming languages as a great example...   There= was a huge C vs Pascal debate, that C 'won' - but I've always said the rise= of C++ came from the Pascal folks that could say "C didn't win."&= nbsp; =46rom the ashes of C++ we have Java, Go, and Rust. 

My point is that   "intelligent design" doesn't= necessarily guarantee goodness or for that matter,complete logical thi= nking.

=
My own take on this is what I call "Co= le's Law"   Simple ec= onomics always beats sophisticated architecture.
What you call o= rganic evolution is what I think of what makes the best economic sens= e for the user and that is a function of the time scale and available re= sources at the time of creation/deployment.

Clem

= --Apple-Mail-1237D096-4271-421C-A0AD-68507001AF3D--