From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id d8b0ad15 for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2019 18:02:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 614089B8B9; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 04:02:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B823D9B8A2; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 04:01:30 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; secure) header.d=tnetconsulting.net header.i=@tnetconsulting.net header.b="K/E952m9"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id EAD0B9B8A2; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 04:01:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net [45.33.28.24]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D24F9B8A0 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2019 04:01:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from Contact-TNet-Consulting-Abuse-for-assistance by tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-3) with ESMTPSA id x15I1OC7017202 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 5 Feb 2019 12:01:26 -0600 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2015; t=1549389686; bh=CtJpp7pYwnuPaFMtrvm1jVZYytSjlTq3HEq8Ld3wdZU=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Cc:Content-Disposition: Content-Language:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Date:From: In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:References:Reply-To: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Sender:Subject:To: User-Agent; b=K/E952m9HnJwWI3mkKen6X0cqfr6C02yt5gnhQyAzZnxLaWfvyzvjv/ofI34avA5y fNjkdUxsT2rBq6tDDa1luANTIdSgcPLkn3OvHoKEFPsP/M31K5RRoyEMKa1JN8qFDB efHCi/KYrzFiEJLwcHC4ji9yleOPaRtt+pedxHA0= To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <20190204202947.69A4818C082@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Organization: TNet Consulting Message-ID: <896294eb-44c0-4fed-0436-37f087611c59@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 11:01:23 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190204202947.69A4818C082@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms080801020901070603060400" Subject: Re: [TUHS] OSI stack (Was: Posters) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Grant Taylor via TUHS Reply-To: Grant Taylor Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080801020901070603060400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 02/04/2019 01:29 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote: > Does one name (in the generic high-level sense of the term 'name';=20 > e.g. an 'address' is a name for a unit of main memory) apply to the nod= e=20 > (host) no matter how many interfaces it has, or where it is/moves in=20 > the network? If so, that name names the node. If not... The vagaries of multi-homed hosts make the answer more complicated. I generally think that a host name applies to the host, no matter how=20 many interfaces it has, or where it is / moves in the network. But=20 that's the "host name". There are other names, like service names, that apply to a service and=20 can (re)pointed to any desired back end host name at any given time. I usually think that host names should resolve to all IPs that are bound = to a host. I then rely on the DNS server to apply some optimization=20 when possible about which IP is returned first based on the client's IP. = I also depend on clients preferring IPs in the directly attached=20 network segment(s). > No. Multi-homed hosts in IPv4 had multiple addresses. (There are all so= rts=20 > of kludges out there now, e.g. a single IP address shared by a pool of = > servers, precisely because the set of entity classes in IPvN - hosts,=20 > interfaces, etc - and namespaces for them were not rich enough for the = > things that people actually wanted to do - e.g. have a pool of servers.= ) Please allow me to clarify. First, I'm excluding load balancers or similar techniques that spread an = IP out across multiple back end servers. Save for saying that I'd argue = that such an IP belongs to the load balancer, not the back end server.=20 That aside. Multi-homed IPv4 hosts (all that I've tested) usually allow traffic to a = local IP to come in on any interface, even if it's not the interface=20 that the IPv4 address is bound to. Take the following host: +---+ +-----------------+ +---+ | A +---+ eth0 B eth1 +---+ C | +---+ +-----------------+ +---+ Even if B has IPv4 forwarding disabled, A will very likely be able to=20 talk to B via the IPv4 address bound to eth1. Likewise C can talk to B=20 using the IPv4 address bound to eth0. My understanding is that IPv6 changes this paredigm to be explicitly the = opposite. If B has IPv6 forwarding disabled, A can't talk to B via the=20 IPv6 address bound to eth1. Nor can C talk to B via the IPv6 address=20 bound to eth0. That's why I was saying that the IPv4 addresses on eth0 and eth1=20 belonged to the OS running on B, not the specific interfaces. > Ignore what term(s) anyone uses, and apply the 'quack/walk' test -=20 > how is it used, and what can it do? I will have to test this when time permits. But the above matches how I remember the duck quacking and walking. > Names (in the generic sense above) used by the path selection mechanism= =20 > (routing protocols do path selection). >=20 > They aren't. But the path selection system can't aggregate information = > (e.g. routes) about multiple connected entities into a single item (to= =20 > make the path selection scale, in a large network like the Internet)=20 > if the names the path selection system uses for them (i.e. addresses,=20 > NSAP's, whatever) are allocated by several different naming authorities= ,=20 > and thus bear no relationship to one another. >=20 > E.g. if my house's street address is 123 North Street, and the house ne= xt=20 > door's address is 456 South Street, and 124 North Street is on the othe= r=20 > side of town, maps (i.e. the data used by a path selection algorithm to= =20 > decide how to get from A to B in the road network) aren't going to be=20 > very compact. Agreed. The number of routes / prefixes and the paths to get to them=20 has been exploding for quite a while now. I think the IPv4 Default Free = Zone is approaching 800,000 routes / paths. --=20 Grant. . . . unix || die --------------ms080801020901070603060400 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC Cy4wggVAMIIEKKADAgECAhEA01fiRe1k2R6LEQCcImIMYTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADCBlzEL MAkGA1UEBhMCR0IxGzAZBgNVBAgTEkdyZWF0ZXIgTWFuY2hlc3RlcjEQMA4GA1UEBxMHU2Fs Zm9yZDEaMBgGA1UEChMRQ09NT0RPIENBIExpbWl0ZWQxPTA7BgNVBAMTNENPTU9ETyBSU0Eg Q2xpZW50IEF1dGhlbnRpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBTZWN1cmUgRW1haWwgQ0EwHhcNMTgxMTE4MDAw MDAwWhcNMTkxMTE4MjM1OTU5WjArMSkwJwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhpndGF5bG9yQHRuZXRjb25z dWx0aW5nLm5ldDCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBANgOhvncDgc4KAlD +pyhFpw6wCfeERlSOAXowjdTjlOR2zcIgzL0TM9A+hkSv2wsVh6fn6VvHGxKrLemReiGd7fQ 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