From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8817 invoked from network); 30 Dec 2022 20:42:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Dec 2022 20:42:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43443423BD; Sat, 31 Dec 2022 06:42:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from pmg.in-ulm.de (pmg.in-ulm.de [217.10.8.27]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1BDC423BB for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2022 06:42:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from pmg.in-ulm.de (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg.in-ulm.de (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 7DDE422933 for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2022 21:42:43 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=in-ulm.de; h=cc :content-type:content-type:date:from:from:in-reply-to:message-id :mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=pmg; bh=tZzVdcxnqddDqNPasprYdI9HJoUQNZkVY/wvmHtfZ50=; b=Eaeq3HgaASVS whecQV+ldLFXa/c8mWBTuQr1U/ul4G4wAzV+zEDUrR9zA2RLTivk2WY1epqEnMfw Gv8e4N+4eTYG63pZvDxYizEy8krAHbbrsz8FS7+KWYSV3BpFWmar+uveEpnomC5e WnxbA5/rAXbADJ1E5rIN1R0Lf4FQK/M= Received: from email.in-ulm.de (unknown [IPv6:2001:1410:200:80e::1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pmg.in-ulm.de (Proxmox) with ESMTPS for ; Fri, 30 Dec 2022 21:42:43 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------kB0C2WKrcUdpyErpG7JIGhaA" Message-ID: <8ca17d52-a25a-dbbf-e1f0-d743b8884cfa@in-ulm.de> Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2022 21:42:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tuhs@tuhs.org References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <464819f0-d2f6-2a60-6481-a194f4428b4d@case.edu> <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> From: Sven Mascheck In-Reply-To: <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> Message-ID-Hash: UPV6KAJMTFFHSGRH445ULHDCCULUSO55 X-Message-ID-Hash: UPV6KAJMTFFHSGRH445ULHDCCULUSO55 X-MailFrom: mascheck@in-ulm.de X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------kB0C2WKrcUdpyErpG7JIGhaA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Larry McVoy on 30.12.2022 21:02: > > [SysIII port] > Is there are reason to hang on to the Bourne shell? Maybe shell script= s? > Does it perform better than ksh or bash? > > Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the sh syntax over csh syntax, but > I'd never go back to the Bourne shell as my login shell. Way too much > useful stuff in ksh/bash. I'd like the idea of=C2=A0=C2=A0 "preserving a heirloom in its natural en= vironment" (and even more effort went in https://heirloom.sourceforge.net/sh.html) let alone this does not prevent from adding modern shells... I guess in interactive use most users would only miss one thing: the=20 history & line editing capability? Side notes to that: * By intention, the almquist shell (a port due to the Berkeley/ATT mess) initially had no history. From the package file DIFFERENCES [1]= , "History. =C2=A0 It seems to me that the csh history mechanism is mos= tly a response to the deficiencies of UNIX terminal I/O. Those of you running 4.2 BSD should try out atty (which I am posting to the net at the same time as ash) and see if you still want history." * and in "ksh - An Extensible High Level Language" David Korn writes: "Originally the idea of adding command line editing to ksh was rejected in the hope that line editing would move into the terminal driver." [2] I have always wondered, what such a central terminal driver driven=20 history/line-editing would have felt like. [1] https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/ash/DIFFERENCES [2] https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/bourne/korn.html --------------kB0C2WKrcUdpyErpG7JIGhaA Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Larry McVoy on 30.12.2022 21:02:

> [SysIII port]
Is there are reason to hang =
on to the Bourne shell?  Maybe shell scripts?
Does it perform better than ksh or bash?

Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the sh syntax over csh syntax, but=20
I'd never go back to the Bourne shell as my login shell.  Way too much
useful stuff in ksh/bash.

I'd like the idea of=C2=A0=C2=A0 "preserving a heirloom in its nat= ural environment"
(and even more effort went in https://heirloom.sourceforge.net/sh.html)
let alone this does not prevent from adding modern shells...

I guess in interactive use most users would only miss one thing: the history & line editing capability?

Side notes to that:

  • By intention, the almquist shell (a port due to the Berkeley/ATT mess) initially had no history. From the package file DIFFERENCES [1],

    "History. =C2=A0 It seems to me that the csh history mechanism is mostly a response to the deficiencies of UNIX terminal I/O. Those of you running 4.2 BSD should try out atty (which I am posting to the net at the same time as ash) and see if you still want history."
  • and in "ksh - An Extensible High Level Language" David Korn writes:

    "Originally the idea of adding command line editing to ksh was rejected in the hope that line editing would move into the terminal driver." [2]

I have always wondered, what such a central terminal driver driven history/line-editing would have felt like.

[1] https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/var= ious/ash/DIFFERENCES
[2] https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/bourne/korn= .html

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