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[157.131.111.89]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x5sm8921895pjp.21.2019.06.23.06.39.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 23 Jun 2019 06:39:26 -0700 (PDT) To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org References: <8D0B5B0D-9956-47D7-8D36-1729BB1E1DA9@eschatologist.net> <20190623051500.GL30743@mcvoy.com> From: Jon Forrest Message-ID: <8d4e21dd-f2f8-347b-94c3-072898c01c54@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 06:39:26 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190623051500.GL30743@mcvoy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [TUHS] CMU Mach sources? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 6/22/2019 10:15 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: > I've read the Mach source. Not a fan. If you look around you can find > SunOS 4.x sources, not legal but it is out there. > If you read the Mach code, nope, it's a tangled mess, there is no > clear picture there. > > I read the papers and wanted to believe it was good, it is not. There's one thing to keep in mind about some software produced in an academic environment. Sometimes it's a collection of proofs of concept of clever ideas that various grad student have hacked together for their MS or PhD work. It's not intended to be production quality. I don't know anything about Mach, but this was certainly the state of Postgres when I worked in the Postgres group in 1991-1995. We tried to use it as the basis for a big research project (e.g. Sequoia 2000) but spent (wasted?) lots of time fighting Postgres issues. Eventually, long after I left the group, and after Mike Stonebraker left Berkeley, a group of people who weren't associated with UC Berkeley did a truly heroic job and "fixed" Postgres. The production quality Postgres you see now is the result. The BSD project was different, for all kinds of reasons. I wonder if Mach was a Postgres or BSD style project. Cordially, Jon Forrest