* [TUHS] Fwd: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper and Lower case at DEC
[not found] <012a01d5808f$0e56dcf0$2b0496d0$@net>
@ 2019-10-12 0:04 ` Clem cole
2019-10-12 0:23 ` Arthur Krewat
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Clem cole @ 2019-10-12 0:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
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FYI. I sent this to one of the lead DOC people from the old days to see if she knew. Here is her answer.
Begin forwarded message:
> From: "Janet Egan"
> Date: October 11, 2019 at 7:53:16 PM EDT
> To: "'Clem Cole'"
> Subject: RE: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper and Lower case at DEC
>
> Hi Clem,
>
> Hmm, I don’t remember whether the style guide addressed that. In the docs for RSX-11M and such I always wrote it “PDP-11”, that is upper case with the dash. I do remember the logo on the machine as always lower case with no dash. The PDP-8 had the same style logo. And you’re right about seeing the lower case on the cover of the handbooks. I have never seen the lower case with the dash or the upper case without it. I don’t think I still have my copy of the style guide. Maybe I’ll take a look around my archives for it.
>
> What a fun question to be thinking about .
> Janet
>
>
> From: Clem Cole
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 9:47 AM
> To: Janet Egan
> Subject: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper and Lower case at DEC
>
> Janet,
> I'm part of The Unix Historical Society (TUHS) mailing list and a topic came up that I thought you might be able to shed some light on. The observation was that 'DEC seemed to have a schizophrenic attitude to wrt to use of upper and lower case WRT to the PDP-11 brand,' i.e. sometimes using "PDP-11" and sometimes "pdp11" (but I note rarely if ever PDP11 or pdp-11) . For instance, the logo on the system itself was all lower: PDP-11/40 but DEC documentation mostly used uppercase in the text; but when used on the places like the cover could be either e.g. the "pdp11 peripherals handbook" to transcribe the cover exactly but it uses upper case "PDP-11" several times on pg 1-1 and the same on the binding. But I could not find examples of pdp-11 or PDP11, i.e. if all lower it was with the dash or all upper without.
>
> Do you remember if there were rules or guidelines and if so what they might have been?
>
> Thanks,
> Clem
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper and Lower case at DEC
2019-10-12 0:04 ` [TUHS] Fwd: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper and Lower case at DEC Clem cole
@ 2019-10-12 0:23 ` Arthur Krewat
2019-10-12 4:24 ` Lars Brinkhoff
0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Arthur Krewat @ 2019-10-12 0:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
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While BAH was more involved in PDP-10 stuff, I wonder what her take is
on this.
On 10/11/2019 8:04 PM, Clem cole wrote:
> FYI. I sent this to one of the lead DOC people from the old days to
> see if she knew. Here is her answer.
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> *From:* "Janet Egan"
>> *Date:* October 11, 2019 at 7:53:16 PM EDT
>> *To:* "'Clem Cole'"
>> *Subject:* *RE: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper
>> and Lower case at DEC*
>>
>> Hi Clem,
>>
>> Hmm, I don’t remember whether the style guide addressed that. In the
>> docs for RSX-11M and such I always wrote it “PDP-11”, that is upper
>> case with the dash. I do remember the logo on the machine as always
>> lower case with no dash. The PDP-8 had the same style logo. And
>> you’re right about seeing the lower case on the cover of the
>> handbooks. I have never seen the lower case with the dash or the
>> upper case without it. I don’t think I still have my copy of the
>> style guide. Maybe I’ll take a look around my archives for it.
>>
>> What a fun question to be thinking about .
>>
>> Janet
>>
>> *From:*Clem Cole
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 11, 2019 9:47 AM
>> *To:* Janet Egan
>> *Subject:* Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper and
>> Lower case at DEC
>>
>> Janet,
>>
>> I'm part of The Unix Historical Society (TUHS) mailing list and a
>> topic came up that I thought you might be able to shed some
>> light on. The observation was that 'DEC seemed to have a
>> schizophrenic attitude to wrt to use of upper and lower case WRT to
>> the PDP-11 brand,' i.e. sometimes using "PDP-11" and sometimes
>> "pdp11" (but I note rarely if ever PDP11 or pdp-11) . For instance,
>> the logo on the system itself was all lower: PDP-11/40
>> <https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg> but
>> DEC documentation mostly used uppercase in the text; but when used on
>> the places like the cover could be either /e.g. /the
>> "pdp11 peripherals handbook" to transcribe the cover exactly but it
>> uses upper case "PDP-11" several times on pg 1-1 and the same on the
>> binding. But I could not find examples of pdp-11 or PDP11, /i.e./ if
>> all lower it was with the dash or all upper without.
>>
>> Do you remember if there were rules or guidelines and if so what they
>> might have been?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Clem
>>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper and Lower case at DEC
2019-10-12 0:23 ` Arthur Krewat
@ 2019-10-12 4:24 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2019-10-12 5:35 ` Angelo Papenhoff
2019-10-13 22:17 ` [TUHS] God vs god (was Upper/Lower at DEC) Steve Johnson
0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2019-10-12 4:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Arthur Krewat; +Cc: tuhs
Arthur Krewat wrote:
> While BAH was more involved in PDP-10 stuff, I wonder what her take is
> on this.
I don't think there ever was a lower case "pdp10" on the machines.
From what I see, it was "PDP-10", "decsystem10", "DECSYSTEM 20",
or "DECSYSTEM 2020".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper and Lower case at DEC
2019-10-12 4:24 ` Lars Brinkhoff
@ 2019-10-12 5:35 ` Angelo Papenhoff
2019-10-13 22:17 ` [TUHS] God vs god (was Upper/Lower at DEC) Steve Johnson
1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Angelo Papenhoff @ 2019-10-12 5:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
On 12/10/19, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
> I don't think there ever was a lower case "pdp10" on the machines.
> From what I see, it was "PDP-10", "decsystem10", "DECSYSTEM 20",
> or "DECSYSTEM 2020".
Nope, the KI10 panel says "pdp10" in the lower left next to the digital logo.
aap
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] God vs god (was Upper/Lower at DEC)
2019-10-12 4:24 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2019-10-12 5:35 ` Angelo Papenhoff
@ 2019-10-13 22:17 ` Steve Johnson
2019-10-14 9:37 ` Toby Thain
1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread
From: Steve Johnson @ 2019-10-13 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lars Brinkhoff, Arthur Krewat; +Cc: tuhs
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There is a story (or perhaps an urban legend) that mainframe computers
used all upper case, in spite of research showing lower case was
easier to read, because some executive said "But with all lower case,
we can't spell God's name right". Anybody able to put some reality
behind that?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lars Brinkhoff" <lars@nocrew.org>
To:"Arthur Krewat" <krewat@kilonet.net>
Cc:<tuhs@tuhs.org>
Sent:Sat, 12 Oct 2019 04:24:01 +0000
Subject:Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Curious Question from the Ether about use of
Upper and Lower case at DEC
Arthur Krewat wrote:
> While BAH was more involved in PDP-10 stuff, I wonder what her take
is
> on this.
I don't think there ever was a lower case "pdp10" on the machines.
From what I see, it was "PDP-10", "decsystem10", "DECSYSTEM 20",
or "DECSYSTEM 2020".
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] God vs god (was Upper/Lower at DEC)
2019-10-13 22:17 ` [TUHS] God vs god (was Upper/Lower at DEC) Steve Johnson
@ 2019-10-14 9:37 ` Toby Thain
0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread
From: Toby Thain @ 2019-10-14 9:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Steve Johnson, Lars Brinkhoff, Arthur Krewat; +Cc: tuhs
On 2019-10-13 11:17 p.m., Steve Johnson wrote:
> There is a story (or perhaps an urban legend) that mainframe computers
> used all upper case, in spite of research showing lower case was easier
> to read, because some executive said "But with all lower case, we can't
> spell God's name right". Anybody able to put some reality behind that?
>
Did nobody explain to the executive that, like printed typography for
FIVE HUNDRED years prior, that a character set with lower case would
include BOTH CASES? (Typographic research doesn't claim that lower case
_only_ is easier to read, and there are reasons to believe it is not.)
> Steve
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> "Lars Brinkhoff" <lars@nocrew.org>
>
> To:
> "Arthur Krewat" <krewat@kilonet.net>
> Cc:
> <tuhs@tuhs.org>
> Sent:
> Sat, 12 Oct 2019 04:24:01 +0000
> Subject:
> Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper
> and Lower case at DEC
>
>
> Arthur Krewat wrote:
> > While BAH was more involved in PDP-10 stuff, I wonder what her take is
> > on this.
>
> I don't think there ever was a lower case "pdp10" on the machines.
> From what I see, it was "PDP-10", "decsystem10", "DECSYSTEM 20",
> or "DECSYSTEM 2020".
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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2019-10-12 0:04 ` [TUHS] Fwd: Curious Question from the Ether about use of Upper and Lower case at DEC Clem cole
2019-10-12 0:23 ` Arthur Krewat
2019-10-12 4:24 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2019-10-12 5:35 ` Angelo Papenhoff
2019-10-13 22:17 ` [TUHS] God vs god (was Upper/Lower at DEC) Steve Johnson
2019-10-14 9:37 ` Toby Thain
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