From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 39448292 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 03:53:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 79D0F9BCBE; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 13:53:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF13C9BC3C; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 13:53:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DCA009BC3C; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 13:53:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from rooster.satexas.com (rooster.satexas.com [207.235.90.2]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5738D9BC35 for ; Wed, 28 Aug 2019 13:53:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rooster.satexas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5446C1C2AC5; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 22:53:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rooster.satexas.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rooster.satexas.com [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 87014-05; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 22:53:28 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nat100.technologists.com (rrcs-71-42-153-195.sw.biz.rr.com [71.42.153.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: csauer@nwhillsumc.org) by rooster.satexas.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 11D001C2A86; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 22:53:28 -0500 (CDT) From: "Charles H. Sauer" Message-Id: <9544A973-31DA-49AF-B192-DE170530A8BD@technologists.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D73E4F77-2249-47A5-8FBE-73833C2D3753" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 22:53:26 -0500 In-Reply-To: <13c5c36e-c84d-e020-d09e-51c8c502dc6d@kilonet.net> To: Arthur Krewat References: <13c5c36e-c84d-e020-d09e-51c8c502dc6d@kilonet.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Virus-Scanned: World Net ProMail v2.0.0 Subject: Re: [TUHS] If not Linux, then what? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_D73E4F77-2249-47A5-8FBE-73833C2D3753 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I=E2=80=99m a bit taken aback by the trees (streams/sockets/file = systems/paging and difficult people) of this discussion. The forest view = seems clear: if not for Linux, Microsoft would have been even more = dominant. If not for Microsoft mis-steps (Cairo, ME, Vista, =E2=80=A6), = Windows dominance would have been even stronger. If not for Steve Jobs = return, Apple really would have cratered. Who besides Apple and Linux = (including Android) have given Microsoft meaningful competition? The last couple of months or so I=E2=80=99ve been figuring out how to = revive and sustain some early 90s PC hardware (not just JAWS but a also = a slightly older ISA only i486DX2-50 machine). I=E2=80=99ve been making = the machines multi boot a variety of environments: Windows 3.11 (with = Mosaic and Netscape), Windows 95, NT 3.51 with the =E2=80=9Cnew shell=E2=80= =9D (Win 95 Explorer), NEXTSTEP 3.3, Dell SVR4 2.2.1, and Red Had = 5.2/6.2/7. For a =E2=80=9CUnix person=E2=80=9D my perspective may be = unusual, but Win95/NT with new shell/Dell SVR4/Linux all seem preferable = to my memory of the Unix systems I casually used when I was using those = four predominantly.=20 I helped lead AIX from 1982 to =E2=80=9989 and Dell UNIX from =E2=80=9989 = to =E2=80=9993. In =E2=80=9993 I stepped away from Unix to work on = Windows 95-based videoconferencing. =46rom =E2=80=9993 to =E2=80=9996 I = did very little with Unix. Starting in 1992, a friend endeavored to = interest me in Linux, but I declined. Then in =E2=80=9996 I joined a = startup that was getting funding based on a prototype app based on = PERL/mSQL/Apache/Linux. My task was to make the prototype a real = product. My Linux advocate friend said to settle on either Slackware or = Red Hat, favoring RPM, so I=E2=80=99ve used Red Hat/Fedora since then. = But I also use Windows 10 and am composing this in TextEdit on macOS. = I=E2=80=99ve tried the various BSD forks, other Linux distributions, = OS/2, Palm OS, etc. but none of those have made me want to keep using = them. Charlie > On Aug 26, 2019, at 6:13 PM, Arthur Krewat wrote: >=20 > = https://linux.slashdot.org/story/19/08/26/0051234/celebrating-the-28th-ann= iversary-of-the-linux-kernel >=20 > Leaving licensing and copyright issues out of this mental exercise, = what would we have now if it wasn't for Linux? Not what you'd WANT it to = be, although that can add to the discussion, but what WOULD it be? >=20 > I'm not asking as a proponent of Linux. If anything, I was dragged = kicking and screaming into the current day and have begrudgingly ceded = my server space to Linux. >=20 > But if not for Linux, would it be BSD? A System V variant? Or (the = horror) Windows NT? >=20 > I do understand that this has been discussed on the list before. I = think, however, it would make a good late-summer exercise. Or late = winter depending on where you are :) >=20 > art k. >=20 -- voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer@technologists.com = =20 fax: +1.512.346.5240 web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ = Facebook/Google/Skype/Twitter: CharlesHSauer --Apple-Mail=_D73E4F77-2249-47A5-8FBE-73833C2D3753 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I=E2=80=99m a bit taken aback by the trees = (streams/sockets/file systems/paging and difficult people) of this = discussion. The forest view seems clear: if not for Linux, Microsoft = would have been even more dominant. If not for Microsoft mis-steps = (Cairo, ME, Vista, =E2=80=A6), Windows dominance would have been even = stronger. If not for Steve Jobs return, Apple really would have = cratered. Who besides Apple and Linux (including Android) have given = Microsoft meaningful competition?

The last couple of = months or so I=E2=80=99ve been figuring out how to revive and sustain = some early 90s PC hardware (not just JAWS but a also a slightly older = ISA only i486DX2-50 machine). I=E2=80=99ve been making the = machines multi boot a variety of environments: Windows 3.11 (with Mosaic = and Netscape), Windows 95, NT 3.51 with the =E2=80=9Cnew shell=E2=80=9D = (Win 95 Explorer), NEXTSTEP 3.3, Dell SVR4 2.2.1, and Red Had 5.2/6.2/7. = For a =E2=80=9CUnix person=E2=80=9D my perspective may be unusual, but = Win95/NT with new shell/Dell SVR4/Linux all seem preferable to my memory = of the Unix systems I casually used when I was using those four = predominantly. 

I = helped lead AIX from 1982 to =E2=80=9989 and Dell UNIX from =E2=80=9989 = to =E2=80=9993. In =E2=80=9993 I stepped away from Unix to work on = Windows 95-based videoconferencing. =46rom =E2=80=9993 to =E2=80=9996 I = did very little with Unix. Starting in 1992, a friend endeavored to = interest me in Linux, but I declined. Then in =E2=80=9996 I joined a = startup that was getting funding based on a prototype app based on = PERL/mSQL/Apache/Linux. My task was to make the prototype a real = product. My Linux advocate friend said to settle on either Slackware or = Red Hat, favoring RPM, so I=E2=80=99ve used Red Hat/Fedora since then. = But I also use Windows 10 and am composing this in TextEdit on macOS. = I=E2=80=99ve tried the various BSD forks, other Linux distributions, = OS/2, Palm OS, etc. but none of those have made me want to keep using = them.

Charlie

On Aug = 26, 2019, at 6:13 PM, Arthur Krewat <krewat@kilonet.net> = wrote:

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/19/08/26/0051234/celebrating-t= he-28th-anniversary-of-the-linux-kernel

Leaving licensing and copyright issues out of this mental = exercise, what would we have now if it wasn't for Linux? Not what you'd = WANT it to be, although that can add to the discussion, but what WOULD = it be?

I'm not asking as a proponent of = Linux. If anything, I was dragged kicking and screaming into the current = day and have begrudgingly ceded my server space to Linux.

But if not for Linux, would it be BSD? A = System V variant? Or (the horror) Windows NT?

I do understand that this has been discussed on the list = before. I think, however, it would make a good late-summer exercise. Or = late winter depending on where you are :)

art= k.


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