From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id de41ddb1 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 03:52:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A7A44A1F5A; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 13:52:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FDE9A1C5C; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 13:52:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 382BDA1C5C; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 13:52:01 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 362 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2019 13:52:00 AEST Received: from mail1.g21.pair.com (mail1.g21.pair.com [216.146.195.69]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9397A1C50 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2019 13:52:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail1.g21.pair.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.g21.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58975F1991; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:45:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.1.67] (76-231-26-130.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.231.26.130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail1.g21.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DCDF5F1990; Sat, 5 Jan 2019 22:45:57 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5FA7E8A7-FB96-48C8-81F7-1F221B2F93A7" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: Paul McJones In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 19:45:56 -0800 Message-Id: References: To: Paul Winalski X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Isaacson v Unix X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_5FA7E8A7-FB96-48C8-81F7-1F221B2F93A7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 5, 2019,Paul Winalski wrote: >=20 > ... After Lampson > left Xerox PARC he set up a similar outfit at Digital'--the Western > Research Lab (WRL). Actually, WRL was started by Forest Baskett, formerly of Stanford = University. Butler Lampson joined DEC's Systems Research Center (SRC) = shortly after it was formed by former PARC manager Bob Taylor. > ... I was working in the software tools > engineering group at the time, and we would have loved to take WRL's > work and to incorporate it in our products. But we couldn't. Why? > Because they wrote everything in Modula 3, and we were using BLISS. SRC used Modula-3, and before that a similar language called Modula-2+. = Originally, WRL used Modula-2, and then I think switched to C. Perhaps = DEC=E2=80=99s engineering groups should also have switched from Bliss to = C. > Yes, PARC invented the modern windows-based GUI, but, as with so many > PARC innovations, Xerox did nothing with it. Based on how the PARC > alumni at WRL behaved at DEC,I would argue that this was the fault of > PARC as much as of Xerox management. Xerox built its Star office automation system based on PARC technology = and with lots of support from PARC. Star was of course not a big = success. PARC also invented laser printers, and Xerox made quite a bit = of money from them. Paul McJones (former Xerox SDD and DEC SRC member =E2=80=94 I have been = on both sides of the fence)= --Apple-Mail=_5FA7E8A7-FB96-48C8-81F7-1F221B2F93A7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On = Jan 5, 2019,Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> = wrote:

... =  After Lampson
left Xerox PARC he set up a similar outfit at Digital'--the = Western
Research Lab = (WRL).

Actually, = WRL was started by Forest Baskett, formerly of Stanford University. = Butler Lampson joined DEC's Systems Research Center (SRC) shortly after = it was formed by former PARC manager Bob Taylor.


...  I = was working in the software tools
engineering group at the time, and we would have loved to = take WRL's
work and to = incorporate it in our products.  But we couldn't. =  Why?
Because they = wrote everything in Modula 3, and we were using = BLISS.

SRC used = Modula-3, and before that a similar language called Modula-2+. = Originally, WRL used Modula-2, and then I think switched to C. Perhaps = DEC=E2=80=99s engineering groups should also have switched from Bliss to = C.


Yes, PARC invented the modern windows-based GUI, but, as with = so many
PARC = innovations, Xerox did nothing with it.  Based on how the = PARC
alumni at WRL = behaved at DEC,I would argue that this was the fault of
PARC as much = as of Xerox management.

Xerox built its Star office automation system based on = PARC technology and with lots of support from PARC. Star was of course = not a big success. PARC also invented laser printers, and Xerox made = quite a bit of money from them.


Paul McJones (former Xerox SDD and DEC SRC member = =E2=80=94 I have been on both sides of the fence)
= --Apple-Mail=_5FA7E8A7-FB96-48C8-81F7-1F221B2F93A7--