From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id d827f02f for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 02:48:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CFF4FA1A7E; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:48:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85953A1A33; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:47:57 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=pobox.com header.i=@pobox.com header.b=x02Yr3vF; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 52A47A1A26; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:47:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from pb-smtp2.pobox.com (pb-smtp2.pobox.com [64.147.108.71]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83569A1A1D for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:47:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com (unknown [10.110.30.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp2.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E25A511109A; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 22:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pb-smtp21.pobox.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E82026A41; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 22:47:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trnsz@pobox.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=pobox.com; h=content-type :mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=sasl; bh= YUJurIqCSYzVHV9BptJF1Yanlgk=; b=x02Yr3vFkn4JC8S5vXwSlfPhexkN59+W XExCrGBb70Jcmj/LLujlVa4bFDCVcgjBlJbwlwsgOXymQTYNt3m+fyF8ZAQ4pzjl tPKHbzHD4uv0z1uEmCblolNug2MphEOc5R0Joor8Z5XRjmsbHJxZYcLppiAb6JOb E2KvqqL37IM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=pobox.com; h=content-type :mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; q=dns; s= sasl; b=fzaOnohEz4LL0yRWbdn0lseci6tmPhSZJAkaFzA0puustNlq6BX6wsQc 8gNZQL6e8bWpf5U7pcPZfl2BY0BcIxMvIk4kzETrxvd/5hSfgyjAf5OqCzVct2Ss V5evV8ZMRISUhHAQdD/O/H+ZgqQpqmzFMmnf7AdxJ2LNIyVlR6g= Received: from pb-smtp21.sea.icgroup.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A1A26A40; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 22:47:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trnsz@pobox.com) Received: from [192.168.1.86] (unknown [108.226.107.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pb-smtp21.pobox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F282B26A3F; Mon, 3 Sep 2018 22:47:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from trnsz@pobox.com) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B1A0CA95-EC6B-446E-BB07-E03085C6739A Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: "Jeffrey H. Johnson" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16A5366a) In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 22:47:46 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <201809031329.w83DT5q0105108@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> To: Dave Horsfall X-Pobox-Relay-ID: E8F122AE-AFEC-11E8-8CD4-CC883AD79A78-32570403!pb-smtp21.pobox.com Subject: Re: [TUHS] Public access multics X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail-B1A0CA95-EC6B-446E-BB07-E03085C6739A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, correct - I don't want to bring the list too off-topic, but Unisys (UNI= VAC + Burroughs) still maintains those two platforms (OS 2000 from the UNIVA= C line and MCP from Burroughs), and they have a hobbyist program for both sy= stems. https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-product= s/clearpath-os-2200-software/clearpath-os-2200-express and https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-product= s/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express Unisys has also released older versions of MCP (1970s) as well with less res= trictive licensing, and the community has built an emulator capable of runni= ng them on an emulated B5500 system - http://www.phkimpel.us/B5500/ The Burroughs MCP name supposedly inspired the MCP villain in TRON as well.=20= I've never used Burroughs Algol nor Honeywell Algol, but I am aware you can u= se Honeywell Algol on Multics via gcos_tss (the GCOS Time Sharing Simulator)= . -- Jeff > On Sep 3, 2018, at 7:41 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote: >=20 > On Mon, 3 Sep 2018, Doug McIlroy wrote: >=20 >>> Was Algol 60 any kind of viable alternative at the time? >>=20 >> The operating system for the Burroughs B5000 had been written in Burrough= s Algol. That punctured the widespread belief that OS's were so particular t= o the hardware that they had to be written in machine language. I don't reca= ll how far Burroughs Algol went beyond Algol 60, nor why Multics did not wan= t to follow that lead. ("Viable" is a slippery concept when choosing among T= uring-complete alternatives.) >=20 > Call me memory-challenged (which I am these days), but wasn't Burroughs' O= S known as Master Control Program (MCP - Male Chauvinist Pig)? >=20 > -- Dave, who has fond memories of the B1500... --Apple-Mail-B1A0CA95-EC6B-446E-BB07-E03085C6739A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, correct - I don't want to bring the li= st too off-topic, but Unisys (UNIVAC + Burroughs) still maintains those two p= latforms (OS 2000 from the UNIVAC line and MCP from Burroughs), and they hav= e a hobbyist program for both systems.


and

<= /div>

Unisys h= as also released older versions of MCP (1970s) as well with less restrictive= licensing, and the community has built an emulator capable of running them o= n an emulated B5500 system - = http://www.phkimpel.us/B5500/

The Burroughs MCP= name supposedly inspired the MCP villain in TRON as well. 
<= br>
I've never used Burroughs Algol nor Honeywell Algol, but I am a= ware you can use Honeywell Algol on Multics via gcos_tss (the GCOS Time Shar= ing Simulator).

-- Jeff

On= Sep 3, 2018, at 7:41 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:

On Mon, 3 Sep 2018, Doug McIlroy wrote:

Was= Algol 60 any kind of viable alternative at the time?

The operating system for the Burroughs B5000 had b= een written in Burroughs Algol. That punctured the widespread belief that OS= 's were so particular to the hardware that they had to be written in machine= language. I don't recall how far Burroughs Algol went beyond Algol 60, nor w= hy Multics did not want to follow that lead.  ("Viable" is a slippery c= oncept when choosing among Turing-complete alternatives.)

Call me memory-challenged (which I am these days= ), but wasn't Burroughs' OS known as Master Control Program (MCP - Male Chau= vinist Pig)?

-- Dave, who has fond memories= of the B1500...
= --Apple-Mail-B1A0CA95-EC6B-446E-BB07-E03085C6739A--