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Ip=[59.148.14.54]; Helo=[exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: KL1PR0201MB2070 Subject: Re: [TUHS] CMU Mach sources? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" ------=_Part_9157_1084744582.1561298636559 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I guess XNU is the 'fixed' version of Mach. At least it powers all those iP= hones and iPads.=20 And I do have the buildable source of Darwin 0.1/0.3 which is the equivalen= t of OS X Server 1.0 It's a.. Fusion of Mach 2.5 and 4.4BSD.=C2=A0 I've heard that NeXTSTEP is m= ore 4.3BSD=20 Get Outlook for Android On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 9:40 PM +0800, "Jon Forrest" wro= te: On 6/22/2019 10:15 PM, Larry McVoy wrote: > I've read the Mach source. Not a fan. If you look around you can find > SunOS 4.x sources, not legal but it is out there. > If you read the Mach code, nope, it's a tangled mess, there is no > clear picture there. >=20 > I read the papers and wanted to believe it was good, it is not. There's one thing to keep in mind about some software produced in an academic environment. Sometimes it's a collection of proofs of concept of clever ideas that various grad student have hacked together for their MS or PhD work. It's not intended to be production quality. I don't know anything about Mach, but this was certainly the state of Postgres when I worked in the Postgres group in 1991-1995. We tried to use it as the basis for a big research project (e.g. Sequoia 2000) but spent (wasted?) lots of time fighting Postgres issues. Eventually, long after I left the group, and after Mike Stonebraker left Berkeley, a group of people who weren't associated with UC Berkeley did a truly heroic job and "fixed" Postgres. The production quality Postgres you see now is the result. The BSD project was different, for all kinds of reasons. I wonder if Mach was a Postgres or BSD style project. Cordially, Jon Forrest ------=_Part_9157_1084744582.1561298636559 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I guess XNU is the 'fixed' version of Mach. At least it powers all those iPhones and iPads.

And I do have the buildable source of Darwin 0.1/0.3 which is the equivalent of OS X Server 1.0

It's a.. Fusion of Mach 2.5 and 4.4BSD.  I've heard that NeXTSTEP is more 4.3BSD




On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 9:40 PM +0800, "Jon Forrest" <nobozo@gmail.com> wrote:


On 6/22/2019 10:15 PM, Larry McVoy wrote:
> I've read the Mach source.  Not a fan.  If you look around you can find
> SunOS 4.x sources, not legal but it is out there.

> If you read the Mach code, nope, it's a tangled mess, there is no
> clear picture there.
> 
> I read the papers and wanted to believe it was good, it is not.

There's one thing to keep in mind about some software produced in
an academic environment. Sometimes it's a collection of proofs of
concept of clever ideas that various grad student have hacked together
for their MS or PhD work. It's not intended to be production quality.

I don't know anything about Mach, but this was certainly the state
of Postgres when I worked in the Postgres group in 1991-1995. We
tried to use it as the basis for a big research project (e.g. Sequoia
2000) but spent (wasted?) lots of time fighting Postgres issues.
Eventually, long after I left the group, and after Mike Stonebraker
left Berkeley, a group of people who weren't associated with UC Berkeley
did a truly heroic job and "fixed" Postgres. The production quality
Postgres you see now is the result.

The BSD project was different, for all kinds of reasons.

I wonder if Mach was a Postgres or BSD style project.

Cordially,
Jon Forrest
------=_Part_9157_1084744582.1561298636559--