From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAD_ENC_HEADER,DKIMWL_WL_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 1576426b for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:58:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 89C229B896; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 13:58:50 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 332479B892; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 13:58:21 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=outdoorexpressionslimited.onmicrosoft.com header.i=@outdoorexpressionslimited.onmicrosoft.com header.b="WSeR7kLA"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 36E999B892; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 13:58:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: from KOR01-SL2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr1290043.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.129.43]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D565F9B891 for ; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 13:58:17 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outdoorexpressionslimited.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-superglobalmegacorp-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cwPwA3A65xfxHQwaaJnYNLw7b/MOcBB4TQFnd3ayCc8=; b=WSeR7kLABYX7vO9J2k4B8DWkqW2WyQtjmqzHXIec0I46hf0h03nUOgjDs2o4kH8E6R90z4gRj0L1fLL49bIrwgOjNN/Isf7xmep3vOxMx62KFVuYkGQkLqbCj2Z4vNesjhdGE5tnFcBNVTmg6mgGbQZ72acyE2Va7GalNFVupSA= Received: from PS2PR02CA0075.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:300:5c::15) by PS2PR02MB3207.apcprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:1096:300:4f::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1580.17; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:58:15 +0000 Received: from PU1APC01FT036.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:f400:7ebd::207) by PS2PR02CA0075.outlook.office365.com (2603:1096:300:5c::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1580.16 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:58:14 +0000 Authentication-Results: spf=fail (sender IP is 14.136.113.162) smtp.mailfrom=superglobalmegacorp.com; horsfall.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;horsfall.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=superglobalmegacorp.com; Received-SPF: Fail (protection.outlook.com: domain of superglobalmegacorp.com does not designate 14.136.113.162 as permitted sender) receiver=protection.outlook.com; client-ip=14.136.113.162; helo=exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local; Received: from exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local (14.136.113.162) by PU1APC01FT036.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.252.207) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.20.1580.10 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:58:13 +0000 Received: from mail.outlook.com (joes-20dollar-tunnel [10.5.11.1]) by exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2657.72) id Z5VV8V18; Mon, 4 Feb 2019 11:58:12 +0800 Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2019 03:57:40 +0000 From: Jason Stevens To: Dave Horsfall , Clem Cole Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20190203213907.GA6142@eureka.lemis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11285_744871804.1549252660514" X-Mailer: Outlook for iOS and Android X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:14.136.113.162; IPV:CAL; CTRY:HK; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(136003)(346002)(396003)(376002)(39830400003)(2980300002)(1109001)(1110001)(339900001)(189003)(199004)(93886005)(7696005)(229853002)(76176011)(606006)(16586007)(71190400001)(733005)(356004)(316002)(110136005)(9686003)(6666004)(55016002)(86362001)(236005)(6306002)(486006)(126002)(45080400002)(2906002)(4326008)(336012)(8936002)(85426001)(8676002)(84326002)(81166006)(446003)(11346002)(50226002)(476003)(81156014)(104016004)(26826003)(508600001)(226693001)(26005)(33964004)(105606002)(106466001)(77096007)(53546011)(53416004)(6246003)(85226003)(186003)(99710200001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:PS2PR02MB3207; H:exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local; FPR:; SPF:Fail; LANG:en; PTR:014136113162.ctinets.com; MX:1; A:1; X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; PU1APC01FT036; 1:Zxj7/mFdFAta0gWQ5l7QM7B/IQMyW1ZUnE6HKGlw1mmom0f0GNn2xS92l2TnMMtj+SJvFyslbOftDRda9I8STZWc2Rmo8pZuzdDGTjt+YaUEZ066e+sa0mOc4XoWLNzYa/ONYOwg98SOquNpyN39ArN6/jVOBe+wt8PXguMPhJg= X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 00c8eff7-a983-4d83-abf9-08d68a54fcaa X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(7021145)(8989299)(4534185)(7022145)(4603075)(4627221)(201702281549075)(8990200)(7048125)(7024125)(7027125)(7023125)(5600110)(711020)(4605077)(2017052603328)(7153060); SRVR:PS2PR02MB3207; X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; PS2PR02MB3207; 3:MoUrQ57AO64h1+d2XVO3A6MsymmLuJ/AQOzzLCwKNVNb3RqOBRlwbXo0pyHWkul8A6XEMVWvuznjf4lGpEEsPOy7QciqPFvw1PqLGBqfxwSDfqcsF1o1zlIFS5sRaPXBBpSwRknkpzP+fcGc3SQZKySefBBO/Raw8ibHRSW7XBTNT7kmexVMPHsiH5vC7+1d4eOzBGIdKojfM5mvehDoHTrN7rvNPXYSzqQcR0RB6JGXzrrF6Dn1J+bT0zrw36ZDmkZJSGxqmpcNsfZ+SK59yWas4yxW1e2ow9VURV0VfmO+yCg2riXwVGNcYuAR93b0haG1qOBISqoOTlz/7u25lnFX6IMyT/D7abdDIk5Xp/rWiqoMS7g3ofWejrAOPMxn; 25:wbYSQ8MPi00HhJG7s2dIiMwFCwulUpOPaQrcTiaM3CByIRazx4khv7vRflVOZNUc3iRTB0qyeiT+CR0rXIg2uDxCxFPZJhKU5jAXlrfAQRjXt7bF0dJhriZuB8/Utj7XlGGrqkOu4Zt9L1L+x4tJ23k0ZNfaeBGzUu77Bt63KK4marML7yUrRZhloEThOh64QUqAihc8lBBsDgVAN4zOhcLHww/Q6/Q6B4tqx0exDagx5U2lTwL3WzSYYn0gmnUdeSyHoZu3yQCbh00hRy0CxrmdWMmKITc7EP+li/53TCHYUnYcT4FGTVbD8yKw63nuk+xhE+aahYs4BoPTY4FDDQ== X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: PS2PR02MB3207: X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; PS2PR02MB3207; 31:uQhKkH4Vtp429WXHrjmG1Ft7VcJsHaj3MvV+0W6DEn++HoqpZjLxXEqE0DH/GDpbvvGfsX9dg8QPnUIH6v8lkyavcAO1/acuO78Zpaz26La1dSjqOPo7R1nASSmQ0l4T1iStPSmQToWznw64YQlQub/wkeJlncFoCfd2TsgM/zgpPznHKi2fea+s97lYCtdGjhEXGiQz74XcbhP9mtYouU80qEFMZy38hl5S8NPbZNw=; 20:lwVnpIkYQGhk00rLyI2eHHCvRCZmU1DpyvceVHr9a/2yaolQa9TfpmwggbKafVxZDmk/Y6sSNgIYCxdAgnM+aQmQxEjaeV/Cfl2QeVYFZt2TOxBYLONE57/HAe6y19+wKqHzoOL5VZmb4evi3RNlHXtii4GY/fgZJrYMk/2kANs=; 4:IKinubXdtIgf3QXTpONuKoaW2cLhggV6wVQeYnJ3Z94FX8C3SQQ6u0Tu3hVs41OmxXnO0j+ZJVzx+QFDhlH8RYtCIX4zJXOAsT3VdFtuw4ZtIGUZQBZuR4YZjnrsnUKCO01SgDv3oD0rxcNw4hjaCjAbDMsAnjuIBCNvKI0vJY77g3VQFmbBDaUbN3dcgSGLBv11s1er6WVtLueO0DvfAhwUNTlcDqVTCp2fkeH6Aqb2xc+frkq0rz8e9Qc5OUT0Si44jBWy1MaOO1zgShJyBMglpeWqT8odHS34j/FtWoJARGBbdNPPISpRow6ne5XZ X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-Forefront-PRVS: 0938781D02 X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: =?us-ascii?Q?1; PS2PR02MB3207; 23:aH86BJSu3kHClo5vJoSEe0GRfWBvJ/XLfs281vsdF?= =?us-ascii?Q?56xtZsKFPYtaE1Tz30WwRS/2yo3dEpLwXTf+KDRkO7aGj+zYIPIE2iUFwoP7?= =?us-ascii?Q?waKMeCoI3GVJUl5anCcoD5Ow/iT2Xuh/iq6BuyJcaHwGvuzUzPJ+KsYBDN3n?= =?us-ascii?Q?snMVRm6VTUvxp2jN+zaGGOYx2RcuYSmkJvGijBaj3aq0z4G6r3/ecAAdnP++?= =?us-ascii?Q?1Soed7PoEE1Xz7YtxJ1kOKXMobhpBjqxUzU1w+m2ZUlP8ecBSWHtNGQZzj9R?= =?us-ascii?Q?7VmF9NvHtYAVgJ6wSxmby+9w+ZuEsP9wS4voYvRvfeRN60uyJsNTM/5H0rOD?= =?us-ascii?Q?iBgGiSuuq8MA834VrVC1BqaBCiRxVcvtcSUsquyNwA/IBcVbRXr9YvJrM8GW?= =?us-ascii?Q?McG+6kwW7bRnQ0SB/zGYv2LwKMGLYl2pzEwQZc+OKSz7NbqwcKdj9aYcLSpj?= =?us-ascii?Q?deOYYskK2ZwfPVJjZEIBuC9bsXwyO57PHVNy884GcYDATdwGRaEy4K0DLbog?= =?us-ascii?Q?5/gmDFx6Vrcc7OtzToH9O77ErlaRnz36z58JPlkNkA0gu+TsMuHR7w12ADf9?= =?us-ascii?Q?M6xjRm4lm8BYjwrp6YnZbJuArGgIF+kuvT7rpoVS5umU9EGaxM/WMqb2k5pC?= =?us-ascii?Q?cf72TNpZHr317+sQYZROH2HqRgUuHl75UyZmJMGtvGYfdJhsibkw/JhhAiYa?= =?us-ascii?Q?Uo9oKHgiZOvAD7f/fGPCd3PuwbO0s43mEVcLhPSMgg0379KMrd7SUr2ygB9y?= =?us-ascii?Q?NbOpnpze8EjILdEi+wyTlJAusPUzwVWJUPSLBOFM64+ZslfJJVnjcCk/jc9j?= =?us-ascii?Q?3+hFpp1BKlhf8K+oTX75VU6DVs/3ZtaPGFQlTjD8EsLsWjNZuP/3Udn+4Xb0?= =?us-ascii?Q?BW1U2BaZJjDAtQ37UWWe5XhEW6yD3XYogaLzruOmoz4ZIqCPzhn9F59j2xJi?= =?us-ascii?Q?zk3aQb3n0P0I57AjsLtjO1VYUkQP96LZNuoLFDChTk90Pcz8jO8Hdz1nWwef?= =?us-ascii?Q?rvpFmAZKuPJ4inKzh9nk9Ott6TW7lf8+/poEZ/wx/fSXRGt4tCBQRJzalTlt?= =?us-ascii?Q?c3jmYWn1YRt+apf8kyX0rKW9YJn3FH2bCzr5/syyLp7pA7Zu2PVlCwFwPmCu?= =?us-ascii?Q?KI3sGr/66OkB13kKvhhVBUJAR6B220q+vGRBv/Vho6OjuevPHY7AcyAoXZJr?= =?us-ascii?Q?ghTyTKIIkoi9f/5+UgLpj10qdZK95s8Do/oPXIteChfGdaxFIlEtGxuu5Lml?= =?us-ascii?Q?GeLpulpSwbqRyrGSJpihmnJhXfrUzdccEjzrsu1AbhFonIAXcrzw6Fr1xUqR?= =?us-ascii?Q?iQXncvk9T6JH5GRGUEHNm8=3D?= X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: fsGG5Bp8e9f/yfc/AeSGmlqqG/Ibrx6J4JXGa2YQL7S1MsWMFHwch83FN1fSAcqzouJJeBHGOipksTkizhyQ5ALxNnfMj0JpGyAzmbCPgONGk2Go4QrNxpkm/hYuBTAUYzKSF0A2cCZpt1TGR0QsXDcpR9vNneUnLy8xAcAr9hYdLnIPqpMiGQw1gGEl0xdkQslT3ou3DTaCbGL4SGwKaX5/Dz6K2L+jN+n5jzhBPevdpr/QPFZJtiUZVp7WVFVbInp0X3JHBTYEPeHsWCIOin8x5QtJwGooFLElY61glwKTt7FKigkSIL2as0Eiwthwy8V3nsNrCLY73GXoUJiS50SmZKPqMXs1E46zs4goJWwaC8iCD1BnfRaQOcBidUoCbNlG7kvygpdEcPe2frK4POwfxst/Yxyzb97p1dYiJ5M= X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; PS2PR02MB3207; 6:6Y3uv5O648LlPGplGXdYz/ry2yzWMuiAFk5DR853uXAhs+iTPdpTQrNdYPopLi38WYiAvfFM+GczHfheTQuaXSD5FDIYS5Kxbb7i7M/Z/C1jWswZvGazfsF+bjkPmzutgjwdpRCfgKHmupwJH04GjdC/qDQB7Vyx1XfZ/JMgM8UeHfP0+lAfhOIbpko/SzOelbFui9h/rq/2P9wvRHM7AdDnCuPDq7LDDDP8hgwWwiPCggg/2L5660gt7izD3l6SjHsOfLSju+QTOeqHzh5x7MysLXLZXwTwPQa7PYhaUOowrKJeWCbSTw2TBmAYmdufyIxtIxPfmE/Ifa2Ptc9mvFee+aui9JS5tNGmhJ96LWAb7/aoKIWcErtTVCuBkJ73SMVWdPd1bMEZD9IPk5n08QwO7QScc3zOzNqYDxny0TaZ6lLI8UqNQPMJr3Tc8RkcZ/6k0WBfdGTwVdWNv+CCJw==; 5:V0gUNrtQ8hDVvblgbNktxyU07stCjfReVtmHNkiGyXQSIZADaNYcBwvXA1UtA13od4kcsFlpubph+3Ril/vUMpWXCP9MftpQ3af1cRJmo9FLvz+4vUKOvnLFEYDPRgjsVPYGHYN3AKlrW+PojCBaroiCano+MPXQHJoymxAxpTn7fbN/mY8MnhLqjUPds9Fel1Iv5sGKe47GFopTPU4/lw==; 7:16jxjZWhwAjz2MU+lJQG0yc6jBJUvVMEXQBLtaKP4SNgVM56Mw9Du7ttl8nDtmLURcEcSYBX1+1PoIj4zVl9a4NIg9x0jazXAcwI4a3T3fiEaHqRugzjLPHtB5o1OV/qOZC+NBQ9ppzaFUvzzFkd+Q== X-OriginatorOrg: superglobalmegacorp.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Feb 2019 03:58:13.5519 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 00c8eff7-a983-4d83-abf9-08d68a54fcaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 870ed452-0577-4b7b-90ed-9cac080031b9 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalAttributedTenantConnectingIp: TenantId=870ed452-0577-4b7b-90ed-9cac080031b9; Ip=[14.136.113.162]; Helo=[exchange.superglobalmegacorp.local] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PS2PR02MB3207 Subject: Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday, Ken Thompson! X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" ------=_Part_11285_744871804.1549252660514 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Indeed, without Unix there wouldn't have been the same rise of Mach, or the= drive to make a portable VMS, as there wouldn't be a C either.=20 Many of the leaked internal tools to build NT reflect that all the back off= ice stuff was on Xenix and VMS.=C2=A0 Just as you can find mentions of emac= s in the makefiles for NT, and how their life would be in jeopardy for chan= ging the tab indentions.=20 Unix had such an incredible impact on the market that without it everything= would be different.=20 Without Xenix micros would have continued to be snubbed by the high end cro= wd depriving that critical jump from machines that cost more than a large h= ouse to personal space.=20 What would be the portable OS to rule them all?=C2=A0 TripOS is the best I = can imagine.=C2=A0 BCPL everywhere.=20 Get Outlook for Android On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 6:34 AM +0800, "Clem Cole" wrote: On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 5:08 PM Dave Horsfall wrote: My vague (and rough) recollection is CP/M -> DOS -> Windows. "Windows" =3D=3D Win95 -- which was a user Interface spec the kernel died IBM CP-DOS -> OS/2 --\=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0\=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0---> NT OS-2 -> NT/WIN .......=C2=A0 =C2=A0Today's WindowsCMU = Mach --\=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 /=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -= --> Mica -/DEC VMS=C2=A0 =C2=A0--/ When Cutler did Mica and then NT OS-2 he did not care what the user interfa= ce was.=C2=A0 Mica was a pure uk and NT OS-2 was also, but by the time of t= he product it became a hybrid.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Putting a different user interfa= ce, be it DOS, OS/2, Unix, VMS or Windows was in the kernel design. Clem=E1=90=A7 ------=_Part_11285_744871804.1549252660514 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I= ndeed, without Unix there wouldn't have been the same rise of Mach, or the = drive to make a portable VMS, as there wouldn't be a C either.

Many of the leaked interna= l tools to build NT reflect that all the back office stuff was on Xenix and= VMS.  Just as you can find mentions of emacs in the makefiles for NT,= and how their life would be in jeopardy for changing the tab indentions. <= br>
Unix had such an incredibl= e impact on the market that without it everything would be different.

Without Xenix micros would= have continued to be snubbed by the high end crowd depriving that critical= jump from machines that cost more than a large house to personal space.
What would be the portable= OS to rule them all?  TripOS is the best I can imagine.  BCPL ev= erywhere.






On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 6:34 AM +0800, "Clem Cole= " <= clemc@ccc.com> wrote:



On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 5:08 = PM Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org= > wrote:
=
My vague (and rough) recollection is CP/M -> DOS -> Windows.
<= /blockquote>
"Windows" =3D=3D Win95 -- which was a user Interface sp= ec the kernel died

IBM CP-DOS -> OS/2 --\
                    =                    \
                    &= nbsp;                    = ---> NT OS-2 -> NT/WIN .......   Today's Windows
CM= U Mach --\                  /<= /div>
                  &nbs= p;   ---> Mica -/
DEC VMS   --/


When Cutler did Mica and then NT OS-2 he did not care wh= at the user interface was.  Mica was a pure uk and NT OS-2 was also, b= ut by the time of the product it became a hybrid.   Putting a dif= ferent user interface, be it DOS, OS/2, Unix, VMS or Windows was in the ker= nel design.

Clem
3D""=E1=90=A7<= /div>
------=_Part_11285_744871804.1549252660514--