From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 6100 invoked from network); 6 Jun 2021 19:08:50 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Jun 2021 19:08:50 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 2232A9CA2F; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 05:08:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84259C9DA; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 05:08:29 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=planet.nl header.i=@planet.nl header.b="xhYKtHpe"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D41249C9DA; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 05:08:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: from cpsmtpb-ews06.kpnxchange.com (cpsmtpb-ews06.kpnxchange.com [213.75.39.9]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E20929C9D6 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2021 05:08:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: from cpsps-ews08.kpnxchange.com ([10.94.84.175]) by cpsmtpb-ews06.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(8.5.9600.16384); Sun, 6 Jun 2021 21:08:18 +0200 X-Brand: 7abm2Q== X-KPN-SpamVerdict: e1=0;e2=0;e3=0;e4=;e6=(e1=10;e3=10;e2=11;e4=10;e6=1 0);EVW:White;BM:NotScanned;FinalVerdict:Clean X-CMAE-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=VaGUgHl9 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=60bd1d22 cx=a_idp_e a=ShNidqeCEQB33TAKUUzslw==:117 a=soxbC+bCkqwFbqeW/W/r+Q==:17 a=x1i13A_MHe4A:10 a=r6YtysWOX24A:10 a=jEIl9BPeAAAA:8 a=3yOGZN6BcD075XgmkjEA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=zwvI-rEBAAAA:8 a=cefIuokRSHGltQRlCf4A:9 a=UrdfQllAhJtXWVA3:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=UbykG2d9i8y_PxD0dgl3:22 a=OoLSvEA_ic9EetkLKI_r:22 X-CM-AcctID: kpn@feedback.cloudmark.com Received: from smtp.kpnmail.nl ([195.121.84.11]) by cpsps-ews08.kpnxchange.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(8.5.9600.16384); Sun, 6 Jun 2021 21:08:18 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=planet.nl; s=planet01; h=to:date:subject:mime-version:content-type:message-id:from; bh=0asjXjPyrBh0wZc4aJUw9qP5AvPc4bNytr6n3ivN8Pw=; b=xhYKtHpe2Cw4d8/qQnxD5kTIlJMOlV+uHMn5pGfBB0fa4JHpdZa8TJAuITvBOMaQODlKxUMr8gQm/ pO1dEP3rgD9+lX+k3ImaOVa9tZtowM/s8JdortSOEjcO+GoaJHpb2IJM9lfVrbSRdYB8+Q4REBxaYe Iq7o8F54HQuwLufo= X-KPN-VerifiedSender: Yes X-CMASSUN: 33|TxvGY8eRYkG7dUcnSB0O4MTAXW3o4OfcXaMJog/K1DTF3+mZ+OcOjdvjAxYpWh5 /xI1h11VK8gJ+5jL5/zKz0Q== X-Originating-IP: 80.101.112.122 Received: from mba1.fritz.box (sqlite.xs4all.nl [80.101.112.122]) by smtp.kpnmail.nl (Halon) with ESMTPSA id 8d196b72-c6fa-11eb-88a9-00505699b758; Sun, 06 Jun 2021 21:08:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D592C933-2BA0-4885-82C1-8D50B4BD0CC4" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.7\)) Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2021 21:08:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: To: TUHS main list References: <9CE2AC05-6B4E-475F-874F-426DD51A8859@planet.nl> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.7) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2021 19:08:18.0080 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F1B3200:01D75B07] X-RcptDomain: minnie.tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] 32V memory management: not quite V7 style swapping -- source code update X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS Reply-To: Paul Ruizendaal Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_D592C933-2BA0-4885-82C1-8D50B4BD0CC4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Clem, > You got me thinking and I'm curious if anyone really knows = historically how many sites ran a 32V system? I don=E2=80=99t know the answer to that, but my outsider impression is = that 32V and 32-bit Sys III had a very small installed base, and hence = that the innovations in it are not all that well known or understood. However, in searching the web for things related to =E2=80=9Cscatter = loading=E2=80=9D I find some references to Xenix. It may be that some of = the 32V/SysIII stuff lived in high volume during the mid-80=E2=80=99s = through that code base. =E2=80=94=E2=80=94 Going on a tangent, I am wondering about =E2=80=9Cmmap=E2=80=9D. John = Reiser wrote that he based the idea on PMAP from Tenex/TOPS-20, and = fretted over a system call with 6 parameters. This would be 1980 at the = latest. In their 1981 discussion paper =E2=80=9CProposals for the enhancement of = Unix on the VAX=E2=80=9D Joy and Fabry propose some mmap like ideas, but = without this API specifically. In the 1983 =E2=80=9C4.2BSD system = manual=E2=80=9D they propose the mmap call in more or less its current = form, but it is not implemented. It remained unimplemented until SunOS 4 = in 1988 and 4.3BSD Reno in 1990. It makes me wonder how close to the current =E2=80=9Cmmap" the code in = the demand paging version of 32V was; it might have been quite close. By the way, from that discussion paper it seems that CSRG had access to = the demand paging version of the 32V code in 1981 but unfortunately it = does not seem to have survived there (I've checked the DVD that Kirk = McKusick provides, but the 32V code on there seems the same as what = Keith Bostic provided to TUHS). Paul > On Jun 6, 2021, at 8:23 PM, Clem Cole wrote: >=20 > Paul, >=20 > You got me thinking and I'm curious if anyone really knows = historically how many sites ran a 32V system? In those days (late = 70s/early 80s) the universities that knew and and even many sites inside = the Bell System, the Vaxen I ran 4.1BSD (say the Marx's brothers at = Whippany along with the Vax in the underseas research lab were we put = the AP I did for my thesis). There were a couple in Summit I know, and = probably Homdel and I'm guessing in some of the operating companies, but = I never got the feeling 32V was popular. The folks with Vaxen that I = knew, if you were able to run BSD (4.1 and eventually 4.2), did. Later = on the only non-'pure-joy' systems I knew were a couple of Ultrix = systems because they wanted the support from DEC and IIRC were using = FORTRAN and wanted the DEC compiler which only ran on Ultrix or VMS. = Inside of AT&T, I personally think I knew more folks with VMS (Fortran = being the key anchor) than those that ran 32V. > =E1=90=A7 --Apple-Mail=_D592C933-2BA0-4885-82C1-8D50B4BD0CC4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Clem,

You got me thinking = and I'm curious if anyone really knows historically how many sites = ran a 32V system?

I don=E2=80=99t know the answer to that, but my outsider = impression is that 32V and 32-bit Sys III had a very small installed = base, and hence that the innovations in it are not all that well known = or understood.

However, in searching the web for things related to = =E2=80=9Cscatter loading=E2=80=9D I find some references to Xenix. It = may be that some of the 32V/SysIII stuff lived in high volume during the = mid-80=E2=80=99s through that code base.

=E2=80=94=E2=80=94

Going on a tangent, I am = wondering about =E2=80=9Cmmap=E2=80=9D. John Reiser wrote that he based = the idea on PMAP from Tenex/TOPS-20, and fretted over a system call with = 6 parameters. This would be 1980 at the latest.

In their 1981 discussion paper = =E2=80=9CProposals for the enhancement of Unix on the VAX=E2=80=9D Joy = and Fabry propose some mmap like ideas, but without this API = specifically. In the 1983 =E2=80=9C4.2BSD system manual=E2=80=9D they = propose the mmap call in more or less its current form, but it is not = implemented. It remained unimplemented until SunOS 4 in 1988 and 4.3BSD = Reno in 1990.

It= makes me wonder how close to the current =E2=80=9Cmmap" the code in the = demand paging version of 32V was; it might have been quite = close.

By the = way, from that discussion paper it seems that CSRG had access to the = demand paging version of the 32V code in 1981 but unfortunately it does = not seem to have survived there (I've checked the DVD that Kirk McKusick = provides, but the 32V code on there seems the same as what Keith Bostic = provided to TUHS).

Paul

On Jun 6, 2021, at 8:23 PM, = Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

Paul,

You got me thinking and = I'm curious if anyone really knows historically how many sites ran = a 32V system?   In those days (late 70s/early 80s) the = universities that knew and and even many sites inside the Bell System, = the Vaxen I ran 4.1BSD (say the Marx's brothers at Whippany along = with the Vax in the underseas research lab were we put the AP I did for = my thesis).  There were a couple in Summit I know, and = probably Homdel and I'm guessing in some of the operating = companies, but I never got the feeling 32V was popular.  = The folks with Vaxen that I knew, if you were able to run BSD = (4.1 and eventually 4.2), did.  Later on the only non-'pure-joy' = systems I knew were a couple of Ultrix systems because they wanted the = support from DEC and IIRC were using FORTRAN and wanted the DEC = compiler which only ran on Ultrix or VMS.  Inside of AT&T, = I personally think I knew more folks with VMS (Fortran being the key = anchor)  than those that ran 32V.
3D""=E1=90=A7<= /div>

= --Apple-Mail=_D592C933-2BA0-4885-82C1-8D50B4BD0CC4--