From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id e15bd8d2 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 03:36:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C3E329BD6E; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:36:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B0D9BD5A; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:36:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 247CC9BD5A; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:36:34 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 441 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:36:33 AEST Received: from rooster.satexas.com (rooster.satexas.com [207.235.90.2]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 753CA9BA1C for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2019 13:36:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rooster.satexas.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE83F1C2A87; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:29:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from rooster.satexas.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rooster.satexas.com [127.0.0.1]) (maiad, port 10024) with ESMTP id 34820-02; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:29:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nat100.technologists.com (rrcs-71-42-153-195.sw.biz.rr.com [71.42.153.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: csauer@nwhillsumc.org) by rooster.satexas.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 384851C2A82; Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:29:05 -0500 (CDT) From: "Charles H. Sauer" Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6BA7791A-9339-4F74-996C-9D860E240E6E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2019 22:29:02 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20190916023738.F34E81570CE9@mail.bitblocks.com> To: Bakul Shah References: <20190915232524.9A5491570CE9@mail.bitblocks.com> <7F62BF6B-8FEA-4C43-9E35-05BDE9BF04EA@ccc.com> <20190916023738.F34E81570CE9@mail.bitblocks.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Virus-Scanned: World Net ProMail v2.0.0 Subject: [TUHS] INed/Rand Editor/Ned [was Re: My EuroBSDcon talk (preview for commentary) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_6BA7791A-9339-4F74-996C-9D860E240E6E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The first Unix I used was PC/ix on an XT. I don=E2=80=99t know it even = had vi, but it had INed, which I assume was the ISC evolution of NED & = Rand Editor. (I think I first started using vi on Xenix on an AT before = I got my own RT??) Anyway, I had been very productive with half-duplex editing on 3270 on = CMS up to that point, and INed seemed very natural to me. Totally unrelated to Unix, when I came to IBM Austin from Yorktown, real = 3270s were scarce/shared. I got a DisplayWriter with a 3270 card and = emulator in my office. That was better than a real 3270 to my tastes, = even with the 8=E2=80=9D diskettes. 3270 emulation on PC was ok, but not = as good as the real thing, certainly not as good as the DW emulation.=20 > On Sep 15, 2019, at 9:37 PM, Bakul Shah wrote: >=20 > On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 12:05:24 +1000 George Michaelson = wrote: >> The "block copy in an editor" thing is something which has intrigued >> me for years. poor old ed/ex/vi just couldn't do it, and for the life >> of me, I could not understand why this was "deprecated" by the people >> writing that family of editors. I seem to recall the various >> lightweight emacs which proceeded GNU had it, in some cases, and GNU >> had it. (Goslings emacs?) >=20 > I think this is because vi grew out of ex which grew out of > ed, all of which were "line" editors, while the Rand Editor > (and the original NED) assumed a quarter plane model. e had > commands such as box (to draw a box), blank (or was it cut?) > to wipe out all nonblank chars from a rectangle, replace, > overlay (nonblank chars from the copy buffer overwrote data), > underlay (nonblank chars from the copy buffer didn't overwrite > nonblank chars) and so on. It even had justfy, fill and center > commands. It was basically an editor for producing documents > in monspaced fonts! -- voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer@technologists.com = =20 fax: +1.512.346.5240 web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ = Facebook/Google/Skype/Twitter: CharlesHSauer --Apple-Mail=_6BA7791A-9339-4F74-996C-9D860E240E6E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 The = first Unix I used was PC/ix on an XT. I don=E2=80=99t know it even had = vi, but it had INed, which I assume was the ISC evolution of NED & = Rand Editor. (I think I first started using vi on Xenix on an AT before = I got my own RT??)

Anyway, I had been very productive with half-duplex editing = on 3270 on CMS up to that point, and INed seemed very natural to = me.

Totally = unrelated to Unix, when I came to IBM Austin from Yorktown, real 3270s = were scarce/shared. I got a DisplayWriter with a 3270 card and emulator = in my office. That was better than a real 3270 to my tastes, even with = the 8=E2=80=9D diskettes. 3270 emulation on PC was ok, but not as good = as the real thing, certainly not as good as the DW emulation. 

On Sep 15, 2019, at 9:37 PM, Bakul Shah <bakul@bitblocks.com>= wrote:

On Mon, 16 Sep 2019 12:05:24 +1000 George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> = wrote:
The "block = copy in an editor" thing is something which has intrigued
me= for years. poor old ed/ex/vi just couldn't do it, and for the life
of me, I could not understand why this was "deprecated" by = the people
writing that family of editors. I seem to = recall the various
lightweight emacs which proceeded GNU = had it, in some cases, and GNU
had it. (Goslings = emacs?)

I think this is = because vi grew out of ex which grew out of
ed, all of = which were "line" editors, while the Rand Editor
(and the = original NED) assumed a quarter plane model. e had
commands = such as box (to draw a box), blank (or was it cut?)
to = wipe out all nonblank chars from a rectangle, replace,
overlay (nonblank chars from the copy buffer overwrote = data),
underlay (nonblank chars from the copy buffer = didn't overwrite
nonblank chars) and so on. It even had = justfy, fill and center
commands. It was basically an = editor for producing documents
in monspaced fonts!

--
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Facebook/Google/Skype/Twitter: = CharlesHSauer

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