From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 0d392743 for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 18:57:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5FF6F9C0B2; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 04:57:55 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655D59BD74; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 04:57:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 315FC9BD74; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 04:57:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail.bitblocks.com (ns1.bitblocks.com [173.228.5.8]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CC629B5BB for ; Tue, 5 Nov 2019 04:57:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mob.bitblocks.com (mob.bitblocks.com [192.168.125.11]) by mail.bitblocks.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6B0156E80B for ; Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:57:24 -0800 (PST) From: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_38EA7611-04F4-4D8F-889D-0A5A191D8C71" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:57:24 -0800 References: <116B676F-5917-481A-9634-0E6C5F702B9B@mcjones.org> To: TUHS main list In-Reply-To: <116B676F-5917-481A-9634-0E6C5F702B9B@mcjones.org> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Subject: Re: [TUHS] Happy birthday Morris worm X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --Apple-Mail=_38EA7611-04F4-4D8F-889D-0A5A191D8C71 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I am surprised no one mentioned The Shockwave Rider by John Brunner, = published in 1975. Excerpt: Then the answer dawned on him, and he almost laughed. Fluckner had = resorted to one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in = the continental net a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a = denunciation group "borrowed" from a major corporation, which would = shunt itself from one nexus to another every time his credit-code was = punched into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a worm like that, = and sometimes weeks. I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don't remember much of it but this = bit had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I have been meaning to = re-read it along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would be too depressing = in the present era! > On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, Paul McJones wrote: >=20 > Another possible source of inspiration =E2=80=94 including the name = =E2=80=9Cworm=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 were the publications by John Shoch and = Jon Hupp on programs they wrote at Xerox PARC around 1979-1980 and = published in 1980 and 1982: >=20 > John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp: > The =E2=80=9CWorm" Programs =E2=80=94 Early Experience with a = Distributed Computation. > Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September 1980 > http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf = >=20 > John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp: > The =E2=80=9CWorm" Programs =E2=80=94 Early Experience with a = Distributed Computation. > CACM V25 N3 (March 1982) > http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf = >=20 >> On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski > wrote: >>=20 >> On 11/2/19, Warner Losh > = wrote: >>>=20 >>> the notion of a self propagating thing >>> was quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many = places >>> prior to the worm, and even though others had proven it via slower = moving >>> vectors of BBS). >>=20 >> Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that dates back >> to the 1960s in IBM mainframe circles. Self-submitting OS/360 JCL >> jobs, which eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with >> jobs, were well-known in the raised-floor world. >>=20 >>> In hindsight people like to point at it and what a terrible thing it = was, >>> but Robert just got there first. >>=20 >> Again, first on the Internet. Back in 1980 I accidentally took down >> DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly VAX/VMS, >> at the time) with a worm. ... >>=20 >> Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's compiler group. >> The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm incident. >> So he certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his >> UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later. >>=20 >> -Paul W. >=20 --Apple-Mail=_38EA7611-04F4-4D8F-889D-0A5A191D8C71 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 I = am surprised no one mentioned The Shockwave Rider by = John Brunner, published in 1975. Excerpt:

Then the answer dawned on him, = and he almost laughed. Fluckner had resorted to one of the oldest tricks in the store and turned loose in the = continental net a selfperpetuating tapeworm, probably headed by a = denunciation group "borrowed" from a major corporation, which would shunt itself from one nexus to another = every time his credit-code was punched into a keyboard. It could take days to kill a = worm like that, and sometimes weeks.

I read it in late 70s/early 80s and don't remember = much of it but this bit had burrowed its way in my subconscious. I have = been meaning to re-read it along with Stand on Zanzibar but they would = be too depressing in the present era!

On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:10 AM, = Paul McJones <paul@mcjones.org> wrote:

Another possible = source of inspiration =E2=80=94 including the name =E2=80=9Cworm=E2=80=9D = =E2=80=94 were the publications by John Shoch and Jon Hupp on programs = they wrote at Xerox PARC around 1979-1980 and published in 1980 and = 1982:

John F. Shoch = and Jon Hupp:
 The =E2=80=9CWorm" Programs =E2=80= =94 Early Experience with a Distributed Computation.
Xerox SSL-80-3 and IEN 159. May 1980, revised September = 1980
http://www.postel.org/ien/pdf/ien159.pdf

John F. Shoch and Jon Hupp:
 The = =E2=80=9CWorm" Programs =E2=80=94 Early Experience with a = Distributed Computation.
CACM V25 N3 (March = 1982)
http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~margo/cs261/background/shoch.pdf

On Nov 3, 2019, Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> = wrote:

On 11/2/19, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> = wrote:

the notion of a self propagating thing
was = quite novel (even if it had been theoretically discussed in many = places
prior to the worm, and even though others had = proven it via slower moving
vectors of BBS).

Novel to the Internet community, perhaps, but an idea that = dates back
to the 1960s = in IBM mainframe circles.  Self-submitting OS/360 JCL
jobs, which = eventually caused a crash by filling the queue files with
jobs, were = well-known in the raised-floor world.

In hindsight people like to point at = it and what a terrible thing it was,
but Robert just got = there first.

Again, first on the Internet.  Back in 1980 I = accidentally took down
DEC's internal engineering network (about 100 nodes, mostly = VAX/VMS,
at the time) = with a worm.  ...

Robert Morris worked as an intern one summer in DEC's = compiler group.
The Fortran project leader told Morris about my 1980 worm = incident.
So he = certainly had heard of the concept before he fashioned his
UNIX/Internet-based worm a few years later.

-Paul = W.


= --Apple-Mail=_38EA7611-04F4-4D8F-889D-0A5A191D8C71--