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[107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x8-20020a17090abc8800b002349608e80csm414981pjr.47.2023.03.13.18.27.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 13 Mar 2023 18:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.400.51.1.1\)) From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 18:27:04 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20230310113708.AD55518C080@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <10C77771-5232-4DBB-8685-ADC38C5E8350@iitbombay.org> To: Dan Cross X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.400.51.1.1) Message-ID-Hash: DARP7Y45V2RS3O7CJ3TDDQ5QIP553EJB X-Message-ID-Hash: DARP7Y45V2RS3O7CJ3TDDQ5QIP553EJB X-MailFrom: bakul@iitbombay.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: Alejandro Colomar , TUHS X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: [TUHS]: C dialects (was: I can't drive 55: "GOTO considered harmful" 55th anniversary) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Mar 13, 2023, at 2:14 PM, Dan Cross wrote: >=20 > On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 5:08=E2=80=AFPM Bakul Shah = wrote: >> On Mar 13, 2023, at 2:00 PM, Paul Winalski = wrote: >>>=20 >>> On 3/13/23, Clem Cole wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Frankly, I'd probably rather see ISO drop a bunch of the stuff they = are now >>>> requiring and fall back at least to K&R2 -- keep it simple. >>>=20 >>> I agree. Every language has toxic features--things that seemed like >>> good ideas at the time but turn out to have been mistakes when = they're >>> better understood. Every good programming shop has its rules >>> concerning certain language features or practices that are not = allowed >>> in the code, usually for safety or maintainability reasons. >>=20 >> You can't drop features from a widely deployed language; but while >> we are dreaming, what I'd like to see is a total *ban* on any and >> all optimizations. What you get is what you see! >=20 > Hey, they dropped `gets` from the standard library! Never say never. It is easy to see that incorrect use of gets can lead to buffer overflow problems so they "fixed" the easier downstream issue but not the root cause! And that is the problem. Easy things are fixed but nobody dares fix more fundamental problems. And that was my point. All that standardization committees can do is tweak a few things here and there.=20=