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[107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d2e1a72fcca58-76bcce8fa33sm33425368b3a.43.2025.08.13.18.41.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 13 Aug 2025 18:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8B37782E-1DFA-4086-9E4C-FC1DEA1231CB" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2025 18:41:33 -0700 In-Reply-To: To: Tom Lyon References: <20250813015509.GA17097@mcvoy.com> <20250813155648.GA25260@mcvoy.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) Message-ID-Hash: 4VGMLLHDWXERLPCVRZXZ5ESJDS2DM7AA X-Message-ID-Hash: 4VGMLLHDWXERLPCVRZXZ5ESJDS2DM7AA X-MailFrom: bakul@iitbombay.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: NFS 40th anniversary event List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: Bakul Shah via TUHS Reply-To: Bakul Shah X-Spam: Yes --Apple-Mail=_8B37782E-1DFA-4086-9E4C-FC1DEA1231CB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I viewed this last October. Seemed like a bunch of sensible ideas. Did = you find any collaborators? [Not offering, just curious!] I see these "storage" categories: chunks, files, namespaces, metadata, = databases & streams [1]. If you define a network protocol to handle = critical operations on them all, implementations would likely follow. = Engineers do better with well defined boundaries compared to "somewhere = beyond there"! [1] probably could be simplified. > On Aug 13, 2025, at 9:43=E2=80=AFAM, Tom Lyon = wrote: >=20 > BTW, my own opinions abut NFS can be seen in my "NFS Must Die!" talk = here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DZVF_djcccKc&ab_channel=3DTomLyon >=20 > Not that NFS *was* bad - but it *is* bad (for non-casual use). > Like the C language, it was great for its time. Not so much anymore. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 9:24=E2=80=AFAM Peter Weinberger (=E6=B8=A9=E5=8D= =9A=E6=A0=BC) via TUHS > wrote: >> It was a research proof-of-princple. (i.e.. partly principled and >> partly really hacky. My list of its issues was pretty long.) >>=20 >> (If A mounted B's file system somewhere, and B mounted A's, then the >> directory tree was infinite. That's mathematics, not a bug.) >>=20 >> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 11:56=E2=80=AFAM Larry McVoy > wrote: >> > >> > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:18:34AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: >> > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:00???AM Douglas McIlroy >> > > > wrote: >> > > > I was always sorry that Peter Weinberger's RFS never made it = outside >> > > > Bell Labs. It allowed networking between separately = administered >> > > > systems by mapping UIDs. >> > > >> > > I believe it did? If I recall correctly, it was available with = System >> > > V, though perhaps I am misremembering. >> > >> > Sunos had it, my office mate ported it. I was unimpressed, it = worked well >> > between the same archs but was riddled with byte order problems and >> > ioctl calls that were not portable. --Apple-Mail=_8B37782E-1DFA-4086-9E4C-FC1DEA1231CB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
I viewed this last October. Seemed like = a bunch of sensible ideas. Did you find any collaborators? [Not = offering, just curious!]

I see these "storage" = categories: chunks, files, namespaces, metadata, databases & streams = [1]. If you define a network protocol to handle critical operations on = them all, implementations would likely follow. Engineers do better with = well defined boundaries compared to "somewhere beyond = there"!

[1] probably could be simplified.

On Aug 13, 2025, at 9:43=E2=80=AFAM, Tom Lyon = <pugs78@gmail.com> wrote:

BTW, my own = opinions abut NFS can be seen in my "NFS Must Die!" talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DZVF_djcccKc&ab_channel=3DTomLy= on

Not that NFS *was* bad - but it *is* bad (for = non-casual use).
Like the C language, it was great for its = time.  Not so much = anymore.



On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 9:24=E2=80=AFAM Peter = Weinberger (=E6=B8=A9=E5=8D=9A=E6=A0=BC) via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> = wrote:
It was a research proof-of-princple. = (i.e.. partly principled and
partly really hacky. My list of its issues was pretty long.)

(If A mounted B's file system somewhere, and B mounted A's, then the
directory tree was infinite. That's mathematics, not a bug.)

On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 11:56=E2=80=AFAM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> = wrote:
>
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:18:34AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 13, 2025 at 10:00???AM Douglas McIlroy
> > <douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> > > I was always sorry that Peter Weinberger's RFS never made = it outside
> > > Bell Labs. It allowed networking between separately = administered
> > > systems by mapping UIDs.
> >
> > I believe it did?  If I recall correctly, it was = available with System
> > V, though perhaps I am misremembering.
>
> Sunos had it, my office mate ported it.  I was unimpressed, it = worked well
> between the same archs but was riddled with byte order problems = and
> ioctl calls that were not portable.

= --Apple-Mail=_8B37782E-1DFA-4086-9E4C-FC1DEA1231CB--