From: downing.nick+tuhs@gmail.com (Nick Downing)
Subject: [TUHS] Ideas for a Unix paper I'm writing
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:48:39 +1000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <BANLkTimsOLLvkj1BpdmUq1XBP9WAb1RjmA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20110628041302.GR39651@dereel.lemis.com>
[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2986 bytes --]
Greg, it is very interesting what you've said about the origin of file
descriptors... it might be worth looking into the history of this a
bit deeper, but from what you've said the earlier systems didn't have
the polymorphic file descriptors that unix has, from what I understand
of your post the device nodes in the filesystem were new with unix? I
totally agree that the text format and the filesystem work together to
promote inter-operability and user `ownership' of their data (a recent
phenomenon along the same lines is XML so we might say that unix
predicts current trends by 20-25 years in this respect as well).
Another really important thing to mention is the Bourne shell, it's
kind of the glue that sticks it all together, and a bit of a
masterpiece in itself, being fraught with compromise but having
programmability and a batch capability without taking away from its
main purpose of being a useable interactive shell.
cheers, Nick
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 28 June 2011 at 10:11:40 +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
>>
>> I'm having some trouble thinking of the right way to explain what is
>> an elegant design at the OS/syscall level, so any inspirations/ideas
>> would be most welcome. I might highlight a couple of syscall groups:
>> open/close/read/write, and fork/exec/exit/wait.
>
> The system call interface is one thing, but I'm not sure it's the most
> important one. Older operating systems (in my experience, IBM OS/360
> and UNIVAC Omega and OS 1100) had similar interfaces. Omega also had
> the concept of integer file descriptors (including 0, 1 and 2
> preassigned). All of these systems had open/close/read/write, for
> example.
>
> I came to UNIX relatively late, and my first impression wasn't
> favourable. It took me a while to realise what the real advantages
> were. For me, they're:
>
> - Text files. At the time, any data of any importance was stored in
> custom-designed file formats. That was more efficient, both in
> terms of processing time and space, but it made things difficult if
> anything went wrong.
>
> - The file system itself. I think the design of the file system,
> especially the separation of names and the files themselves, but
> also special files, is one of the most far-reaching designs I've
> ever come across. To this day, I haven't found anything that even
> comes close.
>
> You might also get some ideas from
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
>
> Greg
> --
> Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed. See
> http://www.lemis.com/grog/email/signed-mail.php for more details.
> If your Microsoft MUA reports problems, please read
> http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua
>
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-06-28 5:48 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-06-28 0:11 Warren Toomey
2011-06-28 0:26 ` Larry McVoy
2011-06-28 0:32 ` Nick Downing
2011-06-28 1:00 ` Tim Newsham
2011-06-28 3:36 ` Jim Capp
2011-07-02 4:03 ` Warner Losh
2011-08-07 20:26 ` Alan D. Salewski
2011-09-02 18:33 ` Jose R. Valverde
2011-06-28 3:53 ` Jim Capp
2011-06-28 4:13 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2011-06-28 5:48 ` Nick Downing [this message]
2011-06-28 7:22 ` Tim Newsham
2011-06-28 14:18 ` Wesley Parish
2011-06-28 7:32 ` Wilko Bulte
2011-06-28 15:22 ` Al Kossow
2011-06-29 1:30 A. P. Garcia
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=BANLkTimsOLLvkj1BpdmUq1XBP9WAb1RjmA@mail.gmail.com \
--to=downing.nick+tuhs@gmail.com \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).