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From: Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org>
To: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Were cron and at done at the same time? Or one before the other?
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 09:05:43 -0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <BB5198D1-63B7-46E6-8227-D299FA0FA987@iitbombay.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAC20D2MbJbKxRq66b-V9EtEnf3KMgFPiMqPVeiHNgVfu+dWvvQ@mail.gmail.com>

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Ah .. but I don’t know if they did! The implication that Pascal folks like complexity seems strange as Pascal is far simpler than C++ (not much larger than C) and C++ is no more type safe than C (both are less type safe than Pascal). Anyway I will stop now! 

> On Dec 9, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Ah .. but all the Pascal folks got on the C++ bandwagon when it was clear C had won.  Frankly, the death of C++ IMO was all the crap added too it, but we have moved in COFF territory and off of Unix and Unix philosophy I think.
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:01 AM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.org> wrote:
>> please don’t blame c++ on pascal folks. stroustrup had nothing to do with pascal.  
>> 
>>>> On Dec 9, 2020, at 7:41 AM, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Amen Doug.
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:36 PM M Douglas McIlroy <m.douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>>>> To paraphrase John Cocke (speaking about Fortran): one must understand
>>>> that Unix commands are not a logical language. They are a natural
>>>> language--in the sense that they developed by organic evolution, not
>>>> "intelligent design".
>>> But I offer a suggestion that another dimension that should be forgotten in time scale and the economics within.
>>> 
>>> When things evolve they do so on different clocks that are not necessarily linear.   i.e. what was 'better' (winning) today, but might not be considered so tomorrow, however could yet prove otherwise sometime later.  I use programming languages as a great example...   There was a huge C vs Pascal debate, that C 'won' - but I've always said the rise of C++ came from the Pascal folks that could say "C didn't win."  From the ashes of C++ we have Java, Go, and Rust. 
>>> 
>>> My point is that   "intelligent design" doesn't necessarily guarantee goodness or for that matter,complete logical thinking.
>>> 
>>> My own take on this is what I call "Cole's Law"   Simple economics always beats sophisticated architecture.
>>> What you call organic evolution is what I think of what makes the best economic sense for the user and that is a function of the time scale and available resources at the time of creation/deployment.
>>> 
>>> Clem
>>> 

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  reply	other threads:[~2020-12-09 17:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 49+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-12-09  4:35 M Douglas McIlroy
2020-12-09 15:40 ` Clem Cole
2020-12-09 15:46   ` Niklas Karlsson
2020-12-09 16:01   ` Bakul Shah
2020-12-09 16:11     ` Clem Cole
2020-12-09 17:05       ` Bakul Shah [this message]
2020-12-09 17:42         ` Dan Stromberg
2020-12-09 23:46           ` Nemo Nusquam
2020-12-14 20:28     ` Dave Horsfall
2020-12-14 22:23       ` Thomas Paulsen
2020-12-14 23:04         ` Andrew Hume
2020-12-14 23:59       ` Harald Arnesen
2020-12-17  4:08         ` John Cowan
2020-12-15  2:57       ` Bakul Shah
2020-12-15  3:05         ` Warner Losh
     [not found]   ` <CAC20D2PXZY9aWgDf-RknROs6JbKEUjzbQ2BRzfTgTR07pXni3g@mail.g mail.com>
2020-12-09 16:04     ` John Foust
2020-12-09 16:40   ` Warner Losh
2020-12-09 16:53     ` Jon Steinhart
2020-12-09 16:58   ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2020-12-09 19:58     ` Dan Cross
2020-12-09 20:30       ` Will Senn
2020-12-13  1:07       ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2020-12-13  1:56         ` Jon Steinhart
2020-12-13  2:58           ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2020-12-13  3:07             ` Jon Steinhart
2020-12-13 16:49               ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2020-12-13 19:06                 ` [TUHS] Were cron and at done at the same time? Or one before the other? [ really linux and filesystems ] Jon Steinhart
2020-12-13  3:02         ` [TUHS] Were cron and at done at the same time? Or one before the other? Dan Cross
2020-12-09 23:22     ` Bakul Shah
2020-12-09 23:44       ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-12-09 23:51         ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2020-12-10  0:19   ` [TUHS] Cole's Slaw John Gilmore
2020-12-10  0:29     ` Larry McVoy
2020-12-10  0:53       ` Erik E. Fair
2020-12-10  3:10         ` George Michaelson
2020-12-12 21:11       ` Dave Horsfall
2020-12-10  1:49     ` John Cowan
2020-12-10  2:12       ` Jon Steinhart
2020-12-12  2:56   ` [TUHS] Were cron and at done at the same time? Or one before the other? Dave Horsfall
2020-12-12 19:10     ` scj
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2020-12-13  2:02 Noel Chiappa
2020-12-13  2:08 ` Clem Cole
2020-12-09 19:25 Noel Chiappa
2020-12-08 18:11 ron minnich
2020-12-08 18:51 ` Mary Ann Horton
2020-12-08 19:05   ` Larry McVoy
2020-12-08 19:20     ` Michael Kjörling
2020-12-09  2:00       ` Dave Horsfall
2020-12-08 19:39   ` Clem Cole

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