From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 22167 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2023 22:46:28 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 26 Jan 2023 22:46:28 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BA83424CC; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 08:46:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io1-f53.google.com (mail-io1-f53.google.com [209.85.166.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B66D424BE for ; Fri, 27 Jan 2023 08:46:18 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io1-f53.google.com with SMTP id n85so1182953iod.7 for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2023 14:46:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=iitbombay-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=uND7hoVSEX/rwsAED4B9t81ECF7KD3e1HcuAxGmwMRY=; b=yYfIjk4sks5BkPWjaXsjRs/K3hXGNx4U7k4AohAZQoLGeAFibGRehgLaGYR7UmXyU3 XWle06jSmgwqjn1+weVpb5/0X9S/+it90OCQYGv3OC73J8NUBSdNLRni2Itm0YzfXXqs m4EMlpMdP6+faihA4s6Vti5+ssQv5uDTpgnrd2TxKzULMYanci0Az1tHBkoYUQzUvqQ9 Qaf5eHWA/IWObnnP1Zn008M6z2K81w0RBNlewGbIbaDkODK0VqK0wa96hGqfyxcAYgHp 3pBBOpuY2jPKSxn8JAc+FDycw7RAwcLPKQanysY6oXpRs7bW2ZLT/8cGpViydkjHuHzA 0DmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:references:message-id:content-transfer-encoding:cc:date :in-reply-to:from:subject:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=uND7hoVSEX/rwsAED4B9t81ECF7KD3e1HcuAxGmwMRY=; b=6QBqHVKJVVu6U/F2n+WURbuLlsAFyCNyE6Jpm23DRgPbInR6N/EekOX2twy+jLwBqj frGuVar4d8ZKF88z/pf55xvZC5Fl1MKln2FAL9h/KiNeHpTMYJi7F9dNTZK/HYvwJlCY B/yF45YnRnh9UL4R7v6rg3A48MPuJL2EBFdY+QhcZyPkpQlqzvQ514jgNNPgBLzskk1G tlBSZder1Gb19VeHIwO8hc/pPUzUEi/dvtthFdS32wX9J9p+3JccR5gQsRgKQC5PB4cA NiWXMp2v7WkYQOmwq5frDeHPQ6jKcS8x6IdxU6g0xOuIVDw/c+Gh9XyPEznMFG6rsVs3 UodQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2koanVdNyf557PhrtNOruZGKOJk9AjpMe7B8cfm8Iev7AboiaLa4 p4SFxr0wBW/1WXZ2gLYE4O/o6K+mdzVW7Zx1 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvult0xk63HlPrDxxCw09bV4hv+wsUUGQxBGa2UfgDxBedmNSiGpRTgeYjuwrtT396L8/E0vQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5e:9516:0:b0:6e4:720a:2391 with SMTP id r22-20020a5e9516000000b006e4720a2391mr26787616ioj.2.1674773117738; Thu, 26 Jan 2023 14:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple (107-215-223-229.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [107.215.223.229]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k10-20020a02334a000000b003a3dd1c7be7sm853837jak.128.2023.01.26.14.45.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 26 Jan 2023 14:45:17 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.300.101.1.3\)) From: Bakul Shah In-Reply-To: <0778FF74-7DF5-4072-95F3-5FF5BEB4CC33@planet.nl> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2023 14:45:06 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0C5D8AF8-BAB2-48B5-854B-34E3A949DE50@planet.nl> <0778FF74-7DF5-4072-95F3-5FF5BEB4CC33@planet.nl> To: Paul Ruizendaal X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.300.101.1.3) Message-ID-Hash: ENF5OXB37DKZUWXAR4WRWN7XBQALLLGK X-Message-ID-Hash: ENF5OXB37DKZUWXAR4WRWN7XBQALLLGK X-MailFrom: bakul@iitbombay.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Earliest UNIX Workstations? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Jan 26, 2023, at 2:17 PM, Paul Ruizendaal wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> Bakul Shah bakul at iitbombay.org=20 >> Fri Jan 27 05:39:30 AEST 2023 >>=20 >> I wonder if this mythical w is the same as V's VGTS as it seems to = have >> pretty much the same model. >> =46rom https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/357332.357334 >=20 >=20 > That is an interesting thought and paper. >=20 > The paper says: >=20 > "As noted in Section 3, the VGTS is only one component of the user = interface software. The other components are the view manager, the exec = server, and the executives. Together, the view manager and exec server = constitute the user interface management.=E2=80=9D >=20 > In this context an =E2=80=9Cexecutive=E2=80=9D seems to be similar to = a shell, the exec server appears to manage client connections and the = view manager seems to be similar to a window manager in X. Maybe this = whole was (later?) referred to as =E2=80=9CW=E2=80=9D? For the curious the sources are available at = http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/Stanford/VSystem_1983.zip It just seems weird that a) for a research OS such as V there were more than one such effort but b) there are no papers about W or any mention of it in V related papers. c) there is source code for VGTS as well as at least one paper about it. d) VGTS seems to have had similar goals as X windows. e) there seemed to be multiple applications written using VGTS. I didn't spend much time searching so may have missed things. I have asked a friend who had Cheriton as research advisor in '80s but most likely it won't yield anything.