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[108.5.53.17]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bi5-20020a05620a318500b007881d253614sm1393599qkb.6.2024.03.03.11.28.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 03 Mar 2024 11:28:58 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Aaron Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2024 14:28:48 -0500 Message-Id: References: <20240303175253.GQ5304@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20240303175253.GQ5304@mcvoy.com> To: Larry McVoy , tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (21D61) Message-ID-Hash: FJE5DD6FU2GTJY242HYTFMTP47ZYNGUW X-Message-ID-Hash: FJE5DD6FU2GTJY242HYTFMTP47ZYNGUW X-MailFrom: aaronscohen@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Of flags and keyletters List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Unix has long benefited from the notion that everything can be improved! Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 3, 2024, at 12:53=E2=80=AFPM, Larry McVoy wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI rewrote getopt() for BitKeeper because I wanted long options an= d > wanted to allow optional args but also have required args. >=20 >> On Sun, Mar 03, 2024 at 12:38:20PM -0500, Aaron wrote: >> Having written the first versions of getopt(3), getopt(1), and associated= man pages around 1979, I do not recall any real orthodoxy in the use of ???= options??? vs ???flags.??? In general, ???flags??? seemed to be reserved for= single arguments in the form of ???-x??? >>=20 >> I wrote getopt, and rewrote many commands to use it because I got annoyed= at trying to remember which commands required ???-x -y -z??? vs ???-xyz???,= and which flags required or allowed optional arguments. >>=20 >> Aaron >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>>> On Mar 2, 2024, at 5:22???PM, jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu wrote: >>>=20 >>> ??? >>>>=20 >>>> From: Bakul Shah >>>=20 >>>> Use of "flag" for this purpose seems strange. "option" makes more sense= . >>>=20 >>> People on this list seem to forget that there were computers before UNIX= . >>>=20 >>> The _syntax_ of "-f" probably predates any UNIX; Multics used it extensi= vely. >>> See the "Introduction to Multics", MAC-TR-123, January 1974 (a little af= ter >>> UNIX V1, but I expect I could probably track it back further in time, if= I >>> cared to put in the effort); pg. 3-24. >>>=20 >>> Interestingly, I looked though the CTSS manual, and CTSS did not seem to= use >>> this syntax for flag arguments: see, e.g., the SAVE command (section AH.= 3.03). >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The _name_ "flag" came in early on UNIX. (Multics called them "arguments= "; >>> see above, pg. 3-27, top line.) We can see this happen - see: >>>=20 >>> http://squoze.net/UNIX/v1man/man1/du >>>=20 >>> which calls the "-a" and "-s" "arguments"; but in: >>>=20 >>> http://squoze.net/UNIX/v1man/man1/ld >>>=20 >>> "-s", "-u", etc are called "flag arguments". >>>=20 >>> Long enough ago that certainty about the etymology/rationale is probably= now >>> lost. >>>=20 >>> Noel >=20 > -- > --- > Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/= boat