* [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation @ 2020-07-31 0:03 Kirk McKusick 2020-07-31 0:26 ` Royce Williams ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Kirk McKusick @ 2020-07-31 0:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs The Computer History Museum has an interesting blog post about Dennis Ritchie's lost dissertation: https://computerhistory.org/blog/discovering-dennis-ritchies-lost-dissertation/ Interesting fact is that Dennis never received his PhD because he failed to provide a bound copy of his dissertation to the Harvard library. Kirk McKusick ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-07-31 0:03 [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation Kirk McKusick @ 2020-07-31 0:26 ` Royce Williams 2020-07-31 0:30 ` Dan Cross 2020-07-31 0:35 ` Larry McVoy 2 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Royce Williams @ 2020-07-31 0:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 616 bytes --] On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 4:23 PM Kirk McKusick <mckusick@mckusick.com> wrote: > The Computer History Museum has an interesting blog post about > Dennis Ritchie's lost dissertation: > > > https://computerhistory.org/blog/discovering-dennis-ritchies-lost-dissertation/ > > Interesting fact is that Dennis never received his PhD because he failed > to provide a bound copy of his dissertation to the Harvard library. It would seem fitting to try to get this posthumously corrected. If we provided said bound copy, does anyone have any Harvard contacts that could facilitate? Royce -- Royce Williams Tech Solvency [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1481 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-07-31 0:03 [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation Kirk McKusick 2020-07-31 0:26 ` Royce Williams @ 2020-07-31 0:30 ` Dan Cross 2020-07-31 0:36 ` Rich Morin 2020-08-01 7:14 ` markus schnalke 2020-07-31 0:35 ` Larry McVoy 2 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2020-07-31 0:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kirk McKusick; +Cc: TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 706 bytes --] I understood from Mike Anshel that he was rather proud of this, though of course I never asked Dennis myself. I wonder if Harvard would posthumously enter it in the books if someone dropped off a bound copy now? I imagine somehow Dennis wouldn't appreciate that. On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 8:23 PM Kirk McKusick <mckusick@mckusick.com> wrote: > The Computer History Museum has an interesting blog post about > Dennis Ritchie's lost dissertation: > > > https://computerhistory.org/blog/discovering-dennis-ritchies-lost-dissertation/ > > Interesting fact is that Dennis never received his PhD because he failed > to provide a bound copy of his dissertation to the Harvard library. > > Kirk McKusick > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1172 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-07-31 0:30 ` Dan Cross @ 2020-07-31 0:36 ` Rich Morin 2020-08-01 7:14 ` markus schnalke 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Rich Morin @ 2020-07-31 0:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: TUHS main list It seems odd to me that nobody seems to have given him an honorary PhD. Perhaps offers were made, but declined? -r ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-07-31 0:30 ` Dan Cross 2020-07-31 0:36 ` Rich Morin @ 2020-08-01 7:14 ` markus schnalke 2020-08-01 14:13 ` Larry McVoy 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: markus schnalke @ 2020-08-01 7:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs Hoi. [2020-07-30 20:30] Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> > > I understood from Mike Anshel that he was rather proud of this, [...] I once read that someone is famous when people omit the titles, because they add nothing to the name, but rather would smaller it. A good example is Albert Einstein. Who cares what titles he has. Another is Dennis Ritchie. What does it matter what degrees, titles, whatever he has? -- He's already a genius! meillo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-08-01 7:14 ` markus schnalke @ 2020-08-01 14:13 ` Larry McVoy 2020-08-01 15:08 ` John P. Linderman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Larry McVoy @ 2020-08-01 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: markus schnalke; +Cc: tuhs On Sat, Aug 01, 2020 at 09:14:36AM +0200, markus schnalke wrote: > Hoi. > > [2020-07-30 20:30] Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> > > > > I understood from Mike Anshel that he was rather proud of this, [...] > > I once read that someone is famous when people omit the titles, > because they add nothing to the name, but rather would smaller it. > A good example is Albert Einstein. Who cares what titles he has. > > Another is Dennis Ritchie. What does it matter what degrees, titles, > whatever he has? -- He's already a genius! My dad wasn't famous, but he had a PhD in physics. He never asked people to call him Dr McVoy. As we grew up and realized he could be called that we asked him why not. He said it sounds fancy, the only time he used it was when he wanted a table at a crowded restaurant (which was very rare, Madison didn't pay him very well). Somehow that stuck with me and I've always been sort of wary of people who use their title. The people I admire never did. Someone on the list said that they thought Dennis wouldn't appreciate it if we got his PhD official. I couldn't put my finger on it at the time, but I agreed. And I think it is because the people who are really great don't need or want the fancy title. I may be over thinking it, but Dennis does not need the title, it does nothing to make his legacy better, his legacy is way way more than that title. Which is a long ramble to say I agree with Markus. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-08-01 14:13 ` Larry McVoy @ 2020-08-01 15:08 ` John P. Linderman 2020-08-01 16:43 ` Dan Cross 2020-08-01 20:24 ` John Gilmore 0 siblings, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: John P. Linderman @ 2020-08-01 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Larry McVoy; +Cc: The Unix Heritage Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1784 bytes --] The use of honorifics was subtly discouraged at the Labs. I never saw a policy statement, but nobody I knew used "Dr" (except those in the medical department), even though the place was crawling with doctoral degrees. On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 10:14 AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > On Sat, Aug 01, 2020 at 09:14:36AM +0200, markus schnalke wrote: > > Hoi. > > > > [2020-07-30 20:30] Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> > > > > > > I understood from Mike Anshel that he was rather proud of this, [...] > > > > I once read that someone is famous when people omit the titles, > > because they add nothing to the name, but rather would smaller it. > > A good example is Albert Einstein. Who cares what titles he has. > > > > Another is Dennis Ritchie. What does it matter what degrees, titles, > > whatever he has? -- He's already a genius! > > My dad wasn't famous, but he had a PhD in physics. He never asked people > to call him Dr McVoy. As we grew up and realized he could be called that > we asked him why not. He said it sounds fancy, the only time he used it > was when he wanted a table at a crowded restaurant (which was very rare, > Madison didn't pay him very well). > > Somehow that stuck with me and I've always been sort of wary of people > who use their title. The people I admire never did. > > Someone on the list said that they thought Dennis wouldn't appreciate > it if we got his PhD official. I couldn't put my finger on it at the > time, but I agreed. And I think it is because the people who are really > great don't need or want the fancy title. I may be over thinking it, > but Dennis does not need the title, it does nothing to make his legacy > better, his legacy is way way more than that title. > > Which is a long ramble to say I agree with Markus. > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2358 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-08-01 15:08 ` John P. Linderman @ 2020-08-01 16:43 ` Dan Cross 2020-08-01 17:21 ` Ken Thompson via TUHS 2020-08-01 17:48 ` John Cowan 2020-08-01 20:24 ` John Gilmore 1 sibling, 2 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2020-08-01 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John P. Linderman; +Cc: The Unix Heritage Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4385 bytes --] On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:09 AM John P. Linderman <jpl.jpl@gmail.com> wrote: > The use of honorifics was subtly discouraged at the Labs. I never saw a > policy statement, but nobody I knew used "Dr" (except those in the medical > department), even though the place was crawling with doctoral degrees. > My officemate has a PhD and told me a funny story. Someone (not him) from his program graduated and shortly thereafter flew somewhere. Realizing that they could put "Dr" as an honorific when booking their flight, this person did so. Shortly after take-off, a flight attendant approached the newly-minted PhD and said something along the lines of, "Uh, Doctor? We have a passenger we think may be having a heart attack..." This person had to quickly explain that they were not "that kind of doctor" but rather "the other kind." The nonplussed flight attendant advised this person not to use "Dr" as a title when booking future flights. As an aside, I have a close friend who is a medical doctor and she's been on _five_ separate flights where the flight attendants have asked for medical assistance from qualified passengers: usually it's a heart-attack or an allergic reaction. As a result, she now prescribes herself an epi pen and keeps it in her bag. I think there are times when titles are contextually appropriate: perhaps on the byline of a paper, in accordance with the editorial guidelines of a publication or conference proceedings or something, or perhaps when teaching a class in an academic setting. Occasionally I teach a session of a graduate course somewhere or another; less occasionally I get emails from students who attended the lecture. I always find it flattering and amusing when they variously refer to me as "Dr" or "Prof": I am neither, though I understand that in academic settings that's simply the norm. About half of the people in the immediate vicinity of my office have PhDs. When my kids have come to visit, I try to use titles and last names. Sometimes this gets them confused, "why did I have to call that person Dr So-and-so but you call her Lucy?" "Because you're six and I'm her colleague." But otherwise everyone is on a first-name basis; if a PhD tried to assert use of their title outside of some context where it's explicitly relevant, I don't imagine it would go well and that person would likely not remain in their position long due to a cultural mismatch. A particular impedance mismatch is when someone has a PhD in a completely unrelated field: It's not unheard of for someone with a degree in the humanities to work in software. I once briefly met someone who had worked on MVS as a systems programmer, but who had a PhD in study of the Japanese language. I doubt he insisted on being called "Doctor" at work. - Dan C. On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 10:14 AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: > >> On Sat, Aug 01, 2020 at 09:14:36AM +0200, markus schnalke wrote: >> > Hoi. >> > >> > [2020-07-30 20:30] Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> >> > > >> > > I understood from Mike Anshel that he was rather proud of this, [...] >> > >> > I once read that someone is famous when people omit the titles, >> > because they add nothing to the name, but rather would smaller it. >> > A good example is Albert Einstein. Who cares what titles he has. >> > >> > Another is Dennis Ritchie. What does it matter what degrees, titles, >> > whatever he has? -- He's already a genius! >> >> My dad wasn't famous, but he had a PhD in physics. He never asked people >> to call him Dr McVoy. As we grew up and realized he could be called that >> we asked him why not. He said it sounds fancy, the only time he used it >> was when he wanted a table at a crowded restaurant (which was very rare, >> Madison didn't pay him very well). >> >> Somehow that stuck with me and I've always been sort of wary of people >> who use their title. The people I admire never did. >> >> Someone on the list said that they thought Dennis wouldn't appreciate >> it if we got his PhD official. I couldn't put my finger on it at the >> time, but I agreed. And I think it is because the people who are really >> great don't need or want the fancy title. I may be over thinking it, >> but Dennis does not need the title, it does nothing to make his legacy >> better, his legacy is way way more than that title. >> >> Which is a long ramble to say I agree with Markus. >> > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5592 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-08-01 16:43 ` Dan Cross @ 2020-08-01 17:21 ` Ken Thompson via TUHS 2020-08-01 17:34 ` Thomas Paulsen 2020-08-01 17:48 ` John Cowan 1 sibling, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Ken Thompson via TUHS @ 2020-08-01 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Cross; +Cc: The Unix Heritage Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5760 bytes --] long story: i have a friend with a phd in computer science. his wife has a phd in chaucer. i was having lunch with them when they were opening a bank account and were discussing what was to go on the checks. she wanted "dr & dr X", he said he would let her have her "dr", but insisted on "joe" - she hit the ceiling, "dr & joe X" wouldn't do. they both were very mad and "decided" on "dr and mr X." i am not sure what they put on the checks, but the best part of the story is when they left. they stomped out of the diner, very angry, and bumped into someone coming in. the guy coming in said "watch out asshole" and joe replied without hesitation "that's dr asshole to you." another friend, this time by name, bob (h) morris, would call me "boy" because he and i were the only non-phds within several floors at the labs. so, about dennis. he was always ambiguous about the title. from that, i gather that, since he put the time in, he wanted people to think he had a phd. but he never used the title because of the stigma around bell labs in so doing. so i would drop this discussion about him, which draws attention to the fact, leave it ambiguous and just call him "dennis." On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 9:44 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:09 AM John P. Linderman <jpl.jpl@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> The use of honorifics was subtly discouraged at the Labs. I never saw a >> policy statement, but nobody I knew used "Dr" (except those in the medical >> department), even though the place was crawling with doctoral degrees. >> > > My officemate has a PhD and told me a funny story. Someone (not him) from > his program graduated and shortly thereafter flew somewhere. Realizing that > they could put "Dr" as an honorific when booking their flight, this person > did so. Shortly after take-off, a flight attendant approached the > newly-minted PhD and said something along the lines of, "Uh, Doctor? We > have a passenger we think may be having a heart attack..." This person had > to quickly explain that they were not "that kind of doctor" but rather "the > other kind." The nonplussed flight attendant advised this person not to use > "Dr" as a title when booking future flights. As an aside, I have a close > friend who is a medical doctor and she's been on _five_ separate flights > where the flight attendants have asked for medical assistance from > qualified passengers: usually it's a heart-attack or an allergic reaction. > As a result, she now prescribes herself an epi pen and keeps it in her bag. > > I think there are times when titles are contextually appropriate: perhaps > on the byline of a paper, in accordance with the editorial guidelines of a > publication or conference proceedings or something, or perhaps when > teaching a class in an academic setting. Occasionally I teach a session of > a graduate course somewhere or another; less occasionally I get emails from > students who attended the lecture. I always find it flattering and amusing > when they variously refer to me as "Dr" or "Prof": I am neither, though I > understand that in academic settings that's simply the norm. > > About half of the people in the immediate vicinity of my office have PhDs. > When my kids have come to visit, I try to use titles and last names. > Sometimes this gets them confused, "why did I have to call that person Dr > So-and-so but you call her Lucy?" "Because you're six and I'm her > colleague." But otherwise everyone is on a first-name basis; if a PhD tried > to assert use of their title outside of some context where it's explicitly > relevant, I don't imagine it would go well and that person would likely not > remain in their position long due to a cultural mismatch. > > A particular impedance mismatch is when someone has a PhD in a completely > unrelated field: It's not unheard of for someone with a degree in the > humanities to work in software. I once briefly met someone who had worked > on MVS as a systems programmer, but who had a PhD in study of the Japanese > language. I doubt he insisted on being called "Doctor" at work. > > - Dan C. > > On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 10:14 AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Aug 01, 2020 at 09:14:36AM +0200, markus schnalke wrote: >>> > Hoi. >>> > >>> > [2020-07-30 20:30] Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> >>> > > >>> > > I understood from Mike Anshel that he was rather proud of this, [...] >>> > >>> > I once read that someone is famous when people omit the titles, >>> > because they add nothing to the name, but rather would smaller it. >>> > A good example is Albert Einstein. Who cares what titles he has. >>> > >>> > Another is Dennis Ritchie. What does it matter what degrees, titles, >>> > whatever he has? -- He's already a genius! >>> >>> My dad wasn't famous, but he had a PhD in physics. He never asked people >>> to call him Dr McVoy. As we grew up and realized he could be called that >>> we asked him why not. He said it sounds fancy, the only time he used it >>> was when he wanted a table at a crowded restaurant (which was very rare, >>> Madison didn't pay him very well). >>> >>> Somehow that stuck with me and I've always been sort of wary of people >>> who use their title. The people I admire never did. >>> >>> Someone on the list said that they thought Dennis wouldn't appreciate >>> it if we got his PhD official. I couldn't put my finger on it at the >>> time, but I agreed. And I think it is because the people who are really >>> great don't need or want the fancy title. I may be over thinking it, >>> but Dennis does not need the title, it does nothing to make his legacy >>> better, his legacy is way way more than that title. >>> >>> Which is a long ramble to say I agree with Markus. >>> >> [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 7367 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-08-01 17:21 ` Ken Thompson via TUHS @ 2020-08-01 17:34 ` Thomas Paulsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Thomas Paulsen @ 2020-08-01 17:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ken Thompson; +Cc: tuhs > so i would drop this discussion about him, which > draws attention to the fact, leave it ambiguous > and just call him "dennis." the final word on the issue. Thanks a lot Ken. <br>_________________________________________________________________<br><strong>Gesendet mit Firemail.de - Freemail</strong> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-08-01 16:43 ` Dan Cross 2020-08-01 17:21 ` Ken Thompson via TUHS @ 2020-08-01 17:48 ` John Cowan 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: John Cowan @ 2020-08-01 17:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Cross; +Cc: The Unix Heritage Society [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2268 bytes --] On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 12:44 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote: On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 11:09 AM John P. Linderman <jpl.jpl@gmail.com> wrote: > >> The use of honorifics was subtly discouraged at the Labs. >> > I think this is true, or at least used to be true, everywhere between the East and California, where it was typical for tertiary students to address their teachers with the ordinary titles of Mr., Mrs., and Miss (now Ms. too, most likely). I once heard of an organization named "The Society for Calling University Professors 'Mister'". Occasionally I teach a session of a graduate course somewhere or another; > less occasionally I get emails from students who attended the lecture. I > always find it flattering and amusing when they variously refer to me as > "Dr" or "Prof": I am neither, > I have a standard reply to that when it comes from people who know nothing about me: "Neither doctor nor master nor even bachelor am I, but plain John of New Avalon. :-)" New Avalon is of course more usually known as the Big Apple. I use that and my middle name as my Twitter username (now long idle), @woldemar_avalon. > About half of the people in the immediate vicinity of my office have PhDs. > I have four siblings and two parents with doctorates, while I myself remain untitled (as shown above). When I was a kid and answered the phone, and someone asked for either Professor Cowan or Doctor Cowan, I would carefully ask "Do you mean Professor Thomas or Professor Marianne?" My mother wanted me to say "Do you want my mother or my father?", but I rejected this as below the dignity of a telephone receptionist. A particular impedance mismatch is when someone has a PhD in a completely > unrelated field: > Many people have advanced degrees in English (or another language) or library science but also a programming background: they tend to wind up in the digital humanities because their original fields aren't hiring. John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org I should say generally that that marriage was best auspiced, for the achievement of happiness, which contemplated a relation between a man and a woman in which the independence was equal, the dependence mutual, and the obligations reciprocal. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4114 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-08-01 15:08 ` John P. Linderman 2020-08-01 16:43 ` Dan Cross @ 2020-08-01 20:24 ` John Gilmore 1 sibling, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: John Gilmore @ 2020-08-01 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John P. Linderman; +Cc: The Unix Heritage Society John P. Linderman <jpl.jpl@gmail.com> wrote: > The use of honorifics was subtly discouraged at the Labs. I never saw a > policy statement, but nobody I knew used "Dr" (except those in the medical > department), even though the place was crawling with doctoral degrees. Yes -- but their administration was anything but egalitarian or meritocratic. I know someone who had immense trouble getting inside the door at the Labs because "all" he had was a bachelor's degree. Let their character be judged by how they treated a stranger. Sign me proud to have succeeded in life with no degrees at all, John Gilmore ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-07-31 0:03 [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation Kirk McKusick 2020-07-31 0:26 ` Royce Williams 2020-07-31 0:30 ` Dan Cross @ 2020-07-31 0:35 ` Larry McVoy 2020-07-31 0:54 ` John Cowan 2 siblings, 1 reply; 17+ messages in thread From: Larry McVoy @ 2020-07-31 0:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Kirk McKusick; +Cc: tuhs "My graduate school experience convinced me that I was not smart enough to be an expert in the theory of algorithms and also that I liked procedural languages better than functional ones." Amen to that. Me too, I tried functional languages and my head hurt. C seems so natural to me. On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 05:03:24PM -0700, Kirk McKusick wrote: > The Computer History Museum has an interesting blog post about > Dennis Ritchie's lost dissertation: > > https://computerhistory.org/blog/discovering-dennis-ritchies-lost-dissertation/ > > Interesting fact is that Dennis never received his PhD because he failed > to provide a bound copy of his dissertation to the Harvard library. > > Kirk McKusick -- --- Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation 2020-07-31 0:35 ` Larry McVoy @ 2020-07-31 0:54 ` John Cowan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: John Cowan @ 2020-07-31 0:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Larry McVoy; +Cc: Kirk McKusick, TUHS main list [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 891 bytes --] On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 8:36 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote: Amen to that. Me too, I tried functional languages and my head hurt. C > seems so natural to me. > IMO impure functional languages like Common Lisp, ML, Scheme, and the somewhat ironically named Pure language are straightforward extensions of imperative programming: you can make your code less imperative without being completely deprived of it. All of these are tail-recursive (formally CL is not, but most implementations are) which means that recursive loops become non-recursive gotos, and for/do-loops wind up being pure without you noticing. John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org If a traveler were informed that such a man [as Lord John Russell] was leader of the House of Commons, he may well begin to comprehend how the Egyptians worshiped an insect. --Benjamin Disraeli [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1436 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation
@ 2020-07-31 12:56 Doug McIlroy
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Doug McIlroy @ 2020-07-31 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
> "My graduate school experience convinced me that I was not smart enough to
> be an expert in the theory of algorithms and also that I liked procedural
> languages better than functional ones."
>
> Amen to that. Me too, I tried functional languages and my head hurt. C
> seems so natural to me.
Dennis made quite a generalization from a sample of one--Lisp,
the only functional language that existed when he was in grad
school. I'm sure he'd agree today that functional languages
shine for spplications rooted in algebraic domains. I
immodestly point to www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/powser.html,
which has nothing to do with Unix, but certainly would have
appealed to Dennis.
Doug
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's dissertation
@ 2020-08-01 16:44 Doug McIlroy
0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread
From: Doug McIlroy @ 2020-08-01 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: tuhs
> The use of honorifics was subtly discouraged at the Labs. I never saw a
policy statement, but nobody I knew used "Dr" (except those in the medical
department)
With the sole exception of the president's office, secretaries were
instructed not to say "Dr so-and-so's office" when they picked up an
unanswered phone call. (When that happened you could be sure that
the party you were calling was genuinely unavailable. Part of the
AT&T ethos--now abandoned--was that everybody, right up to the
president, answered their own phones.)
Doug
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
* Re: [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation @ 2020-08-01 21:24 Norman Wilson 0 siblings, 0 replies; 17+ messages in thread From: Norman Wilson @ 2020-08-01 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tuhs John Gilmore: Yes -- but [Bell Labs'] administration was anything but egalitarian or meritocratic. I know someone who had immense trouble getting inside the door at the Labs because "all" he had was a bachelor's degree. Let their character be judged by how they treated a stranger. Sign me proud to have succeeded in life with no degrees at all, ==== That was where local management came in. I have no degrees at all. I haven't been nearly as successful in many ways as John, but I was recruited and hired by 1127. That I had no degree meant I was initially hired as a `special technical assistant' rather than a `member of technical staff,' but my department head and director and executive director (the last was the legendary Vic Vyssotsky) worked tirelessly on my behalf, without my pushing them at all, to get me upgraded, and succeeded after I'd been there about a year. It was only later that I realized just how much work they'd done on my behalf. The upgrade gave me a big raise in pay, but I was young enough and nerdy enough not to notice. Within the 1127 culture there was no perceptible difference; it was very much an egalitarian culture. I felt respected as an equal from the start (really from the day and a half I spent interviewing there). Not every part of the Labs, let alone AT&T, was like that, especially outside of the Research area. I didn't realize it initially but that was one of the ways I benefited from the success of UNIX (that 1127's and 112's management could push past such bureaucratic barriers). After all, Ken never had more than an MS. Norman Wilson Toronto ON ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 17+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-08-01 21:26 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 17+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2020-07-31 0:03 [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation Kirk McKusick 2020-07-31 0:26 ` Royce Williams 2020-07-31 0:30 ` Dan Cross 2020-07-31 0:36 ` Rich Morin 2020-08-01 7:14 ` markus schnalke 2020-08-01 14:13 ` Larry McVoy 2020-08-01 15:08 ` John P. Linderman 2020-08-01 16:43 ` Dan Cross 2020-08-01 17:21 ` Ken Thompson via TUHS 2020-08-01 17:34 ` Thomas Paulsen 2020-08-01 17:48 ` John Cowan 2020-08-01 20:24 ` John Gilmore 2020-07-31 0:35 ` Larry McVoy 2020-07-31 0:54 ` John Cowan 2020-07-31 12:56 Doug McIlroy 2020-08-01 16:44 [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's dissertation Doug McIlroy 2020-08-01 21:24 [TUHS] Dennis Ritchie's Dissertation Norman Wilson
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