From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 7ed77845 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:55:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BBD2E94FC3; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 02:55:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6159694FB9; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 02:55:09 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="rDEik9tr"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id A5D4094FB9; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 02:55:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-oi1-f172.google.com (mail-oi1-f172.google.com [209.85.167.172]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2888B94FB7 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 02:55:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-oi1-f172.google.com with SMTP id w13so3716375oiw.9 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 08:55:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=UORxZ3Vh1vm/vCpRB4uGZkgYFNCbR8BEqfs5OdFTVG0=; b=rDEik9trH03dIz+5gPO0rTVGbbhtCswln/FRG+uSwI0zS7RKE41c7gnmNI6lUXPVBY 5xWEy7xWWN/NfH8BGqvClda4fQrqEkfHjaFkCGjIfnLN2ScTQSXGnzbWudWV3+/GZfKz kzmfNNVrsOKNAeG7OwDO1RmbdJ1Le5FeyF90NJvZ2HMMO4zMJ2U2+GXr43AVn8Wy9YVd M3gw5Y8Uv5S+kBO2D0VbNyBOAoqM7JbYEvA6mXCRMiT7HTovzwIh1/iHV08F8J7nrM2j Cwwh1flCRC0TAITTIkBlrai59SjwFd0Y3asVrjbxXfljOVxdX3ubDjaQK7X5ddEDR4Uy pAGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=UORxZ3Vh1vm/vCpRB4uGZkgYFNCbR8BEqfs5OdFTVG0=; b=TzXRN64iOPPGmBdWkaULtbpi9ka5IxUiSJw2WflYeabaO0HZE2BNZQgkbGsBmV+MDS KlZESsH+fydkg+lptYXkL02+FcguUXqleiUlyo+p8InqcfBtV/GKMPxbMcrbNR1ZAfyr MLw+G75luW3BRam8BNM4puaogKNpa3x440pvKXdpvIJNa6Ji3KFHxO3q/SmyAAvgRMjJ ew61ZcoWxJx5094LFVEL1UfDV7wHE7n8VYib/TK+Uyz7/O+vwsmFMGxlGcqfABwrM/nW mXQBXTwJBYSD3cvDCmvld7qN0/IPcELZtFYtlBqgIYJYBjRJE0ruPitnctJsR8bCStaV k5KA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdPHWKoOMocJRykupg0IpAoT3DiRYiUGmzv3omZ2WwNoh2dtuF3 AXq27ZhhOkgXBY4l0saPEgNWfAr+a9PMBpeCsYE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6FvwVBok3pCpXgSmovXHBU2yXMV9ZtMyORY1t8T3WG9f6/KSMJNfHXNkFm3lfhtbupqFUpJupnGW5sDCA1FXc= X-Received: by 2002:aca:4cc8:: with SMTP id z191mr5644625oia.54.1547657705306; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 08:55:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a4a:6256:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 16 Jan 2019 08:55:03 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Winalski Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2019 11:55:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: Kevin Bowling Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [TUHS] DEC and Dave Cutler (was Re: The John Snow's of the UNIX family) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 1/16/19, Kevin Bowling wrote: > I=E2=80=99ve heard and personally seen a lot of technical arrogance and > incompetence out of the Masshole area. Was DEC inflicted? In > =E2=80=9CShowstopper=E2=80=9D Cutler fled to the west coast to get away f= rom this kind of > thing. > Having worked at DEC from February 1980 until after the Compaq takeover, I would say that DEC may have exhibited technical arrogance from time to time, but certainly never technical incompetence. DEC's downfall was a total lack of skill at marketing. Ken Olsen believed firmly in a "build it and they will come" philosophy. Contrast this with AT&T's brilliant "Unix - consider it a standard" ad campaign. DEC also suffered from organizational paralysis. KO believed in decisions by consensus. This is fine if you can reach a consensus, but if you can't it leads to perpetually revisiting decisions and to obstructionist behavior. There was a saying in DEC engineering that any decision worth making was worth making 10 times. As opposed to the "lead, follow, or get out of the way" philosophy at Sun. Or Intel's concept of disagree and commit. DEC did move towards a "designated responsible individual" approach where a single person got to make the ultimate decision, but the old consensus approach never really died. Dave Cutler was the epitome of arrogance. On the technical side, he got away with it because his way (which he considered to be the only way) was usually at least good enough for Version 1, if not the best design. Cutler excelled in getting V1 of something out the door. He never stayed around for V2 of anything. He had a tendency to leave messes behind him. A Cutler product reminded me of the intro to "The Peabodys" segment of Rocky & Bullwinkle. A big elaborate procession, followed by someone cleaning up the mess with a broom. Cutler believed in a "my way or the highway" approach to software design. His move to the west coast was to place himself far enough away that those who wanted to revisit all his decisions would have a tough time doing so. On the personal side, he went out of his way to be nasty to people, as pointed out elsewhere in this thread. Although he was admired technically, nobody liked him. -Paul W.