From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21343 invoked from network); 7 Jun 2022 17:00:52 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 7 Jun 2022 17:00:52 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEF1E40D2E; Wed, 8 Jun 2022 03:00:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pj1-x102d.google.com (mail-pj1-x102d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::102d]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D04940D2D for ; Wed, 8 Jun 2022 03:00:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pj1-x102d.google.com with SMTP id v11-20020a17090a4ecb00b001e2c5b837ccso21378357pjl.3 for ; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=REJDBgNMCb3E6CFhxYPws6lFfKDlDVDRiGRnsmunHEQ=; b=l38CLyplUwtbNtdO7rOenhTeCDscD3tSYa33YIUDSshoWNJFb6afNqoeLNztL/fyFi TN55D1gXjyAD8pwsOa2Rh+k4UurtfgyT0kCzFlLDvcRrfQcWGDPgpdgSiOP0CTOkUf75 09YRD5Edasv5Gn3lHwp1zevOO1iXqfWG3kJr5O0WZu7ZY32FrZagBIYd3fj3kCkocEn1 XG8dAW4vyou+UUvdAj/aC9Xe8oHOUcSPnsJ5r5lbs/mBNfhH3GGMLwAQGDbFDSHNyB62 9WGjIpOIlx7UCQkrmPmPLf3KU95TG3KJMKGSa5wGX/k4OPUEi7lanIm2C01eHr5jqVwZ 9MCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=REJDBgNMCb3E6CFhxYPws6lFfKDlDVDRiGRnsmunHEQ=; b=7cm4B4tyMr7XSr/0Jywevi3yXR9UYya/RJERMqJqK1rccPwrWdlVRTKak+54Iffk25 kJSaqJfOS00NVLHc66xK64HcQiLOjwcZGjV+WF2rxqOs+vNHclvQ5Ahs+iz7yi6GGIM5 KATnzUk5uFlQtRpoK34iUbAg1IHraJYnVPf0ZZU4ErTT6Z1EMIs3AL8qloNB2+Tx9T6U huJs0JhlOBmf1M88H4OAIyZqZmU4Xuw03iG4E0sOV3N2K38A1UrcSGikoARnBtbBa7QK 0jboEOqNIyCb8cHuKedxKduPWWcu5bkq5oCx/LbQp57QCRbxbCfJKMx53e+fBhiAVLRV jj/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530YSjAI0JD+1UXPyhuz1bvY672cSuI8x66VmA5lUEdA/rBqZO8e TEA6D1J+0H8R9BwZ7JeK5wAklUvRLlZs0m4RuVCNP/6E X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyigQQyw86f4sMbVcEHi9wS9WkRnuk4KUAnP/HApiZr5OpR8KE9BvheouhH5EL//KywM3nKsnoBBwdLHS7EjR0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:408c:b0:163:e526:4397 with SMTP id z12-20020a170903408c00b00163e5264397mr29415970plc.80.1654621241729; Tue, 07 Jun 2022 10:00:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:902:ec8c:b0:164:d39:96c with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jun 2022 10:00:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20220607152519.GN15041@mcvoy.com> From: Paul Winalski Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2022 13:00:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: DV2C5FPSTOQ754B2YBJDZT3ALMYYRT6D X-Message-ID-Hash: DV2C5FPSTOQ754B2YBJDZT3ALMYYRT6D X-MailFrom: paul.winalski@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Fwd: [simh] Announcing the Open SIMH project List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 6/7/22, Warner Losh wrote: > > But not the same binaries. I've run into a lot of issues trying to run a > binary for Debian on red hat or vice Vera due to shared libraries not being > completely compatible... kinda makes the whole system call argument moot > since there is always significant version skew... Part of my last job was to maintain a suite of software development and testing tools for our product across three different operating system platforms: Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. The suite had to run on several versions of four or five Linux distributions. It is all user mode, unprivileged code. Windows and OS X rarely had problems with upward compatibility (newer versions able to run executables built for older versions), but Linux was living hell. Shared library compatibility was the biggest problem. Not only were shared libraries often incompatible between different Linux distributions, they were sometimes incompatible even between different versions of the same distribution. The problem of keeping shared libraries upward compatible from release to release was solved circa 1975 by the engineers who designed the VAX/VMS ABI. If not before that. It's not rocket science, but it does require a degree of discipline, care, and attention to detail when adding new or incompatible changes to an existing library. That bit of developer culture seems to be absent from Linux and the pieces of GNU that supply Linux's fundamental libraries (libc, etc.). To bring this back closer to TUHS, I don't know if the Unix distributions that support shared libraries suffer from the same problem. -Paul W.