From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id a653d4b6 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 00:09:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 0BFC6A2205; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:09:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01765A1F1C; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:09:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 82AD4A1F04; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:09:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f48.google.com (mail-lf1-f48.google.com [209.85.167.48]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A5D70A1F01 for ; Wed, 5 Dec 2018 10:08:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f48.google.com with SMTP id b20so13340739lfa.12 for ; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 16:08:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=PTykjdMTvQoKjj9wy6PkHRE2b5F/hn2BsRWw1svgvd0=; b=iHP22tNQ74P5HZ6139KAxb1P+zCEm3b8/5n4id7ByWvrRqGJ+MeT2sJRNBAwn4UzQc 7h6vpfMbO8pOsd00K8M5SuZurQugLDwYVc/D9Sxhk+hQg7UqdWhobcDiTvb+lr/XcAP0 oP70diRkQkZJpiPrqBAxdoqRwUpzS5iXpa0Db4BZcfvhXKOLl7/kHkh9i55JNYYt5gXJ 4NjdBqPW0LtiEwe3KBp/M/+FDzmdt18B1wUhpDc7xA09r7B93uajWCvCsU+fVZKR7EQB zS+lATeroPYracVUWPYCmky/FhV8IDAlks8Cbp58rbYQaB9w4nzFS2Xb0JwUmtodO3jv mDAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=PTykjdMTvQoKjj9wy6PkHRE2b5F/hn2BsRWw1svgvd0=; b=J9oJzstktH4wWVS5lK2JioRPZ9aWmuIlVgMsLvwfKAfZ0jB0+cYkN4h+W4yqdtiL2e EbKKLL20BKQD1haBk7LKXjdNhHQkmIAX418BaxDIfVqbPSmaaAAPZ7zYe5n7+Tw5gbiT aDfkMuFs9551BxODTwlvc9Hj5OFA2rvdr9JteVl9MnX0UN7oV8FlKv3g88zwe4H4kfS0 2Du29tTOHXMGADvzosIvcxcIgDQ9/fsU1U3+YHfgqrfYXvPYUq2lU8uXTO0AlFnC8DMJ 1dgxMt8Q8RrhP5guBa84maBaukMl41wn5BwkZ/pQ6sZ4jqoK55UuvCuEwes6YUtzW30T YmvA== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWZiemEgUDK3+CrtJ40V5gSyqsswdfdPP6wQWQBWbO20lhK5E5pC 53hNM/BL4BXG2WCGksOyrc4ckUp6Mx0PSbtuW0Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/UdmijjXpFv7ODeXnQg2zUBY7kE3XaouUzaecDX5ZBD4rqe2I9NQRl5H0G+K7Y/TrhoFMnECaX3HBFP7OXJ4h4= X-Received: by 2002:a19:5f1e:: with SMTP id t30mr12454086lfb.76.1543968536790; Tue, 04 Dec 2018 16:08:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a2e:3a11:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Dec 2018 16:08:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20181204224925.GB55383@eureka.lemis.com> References: <20181204144306.A830E18C0A0@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> <2DBF1622-0489-4F39-88A5-BCE130732041@tkr.bondplaza.com> <20181204224925.GB55383@eureka.lemis.com> From: Paul Winalski Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 19:08:56 -0500 Message-ID: To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Tandem NSK implementation language (was: Happy birthday, John Backus!) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 12/4/18, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > On Tuesday, 4 December 2018 at 15:59:46 -0500, Paul Winalski wrote: >> >> I forgot one: Tandem NonStop OS on Alpha, which was under development >> at Compaq at the time that Compaq decided to sell off the Alpha >> technology to Intel. > > Was this a start-from-scratch operation? The original Tandem OS > (called Guardian at the time) was written in Tandem's TAL (Transaction > Application Language, amongst other productions), a vague evolution of > HP's SPL that looked more like Algol, starting in about 1974. That is > also the earliest I know of an operating system being implemented > entirely in a high level language. No, not start-from-scratch. They modified the existing MIPS TAL front end to generate GEM intermediate language. I don't know if the TAL front end generated GEM IL directly or if they wrote some sort of IL-to-IL translator wedge. IIRC we didn't need to do any object file work in GEM to support Tandem because they were already using an object file format we supported (ELF or COFF). > When Tandem started using other architectures (MIPS) in the late 1980s > we discussed translating the whole thing to C. I was asked to write a > 99% translator (maintaining comments and such), and failed. IIRC some of the Tandem code was in C at this point (1999) but a TAL for Alpha was also needed. -Paul W.